Morning Read: North Country 4-wheeler trails growing, controversial
A lot of motorized sport fans in the North Country see 4-wheeled ATVs as the next big thing. The machines can be ridden more of the year — snowmobilers spend a lot of each winter looking glumly at slushy trails.
A lot of people love ATVs.
Last month, the Adirondack Daily Enterprise reported that Franklin County is considering moving forward with an intergrated system for four wheelers that would link to routes in St. Lawrence and Clinton Counties.
Neil Seymour, Franklin County Tourism director and head of the committee, told the board his committee wrapped up their work by conducting a survey, mostly of ATV users, about a potential trail network to assess interest in it.
Out of 920 responses, 82 percent from ATV owners, 98 percent said they want to see an ATV trail system in Franklin County, which Seymour called “pretty overwhelming.”
The SNIRT event this spring in Lewis County and the Tug Hill drew 3,000 riders, according to the Watertown Daily Times.
But the sport also has its critics and its detractors, including environmental groups who say that riders do a lot of damage to forests and wetlands.
Already, ATVs have been banned from most state-owned roads in the Adirondack forest preserve. And the WDT is reporting this morning that a pair of anti-4-wheeler activists in Lewis County are suing to close roads there.
Janette M. Peek, Watson, and Gerald A. Smith, Barnes Corners, last week filed a state Supreme Court lawsuit seeking nullification of a June 2006 law that opened 11.5 miles of county roads to ATV traffic.
The suit claims that the popular road system in Lewis County violates state highway and traffic laws, and claims that Peek and Smith “are harmed by dust, noise, reckless use and environmental destruction by passing ATVs.”
So what do you think? Are ATVs a fun addition to the recreation landscape? An environmental sourge? Do you enjoy riding? Would you want a trail or a popular ATV road to go by your house?
As always, comments welcome below.
Tags: outdoor recreation
ATVs and UTVs have their place, if used and driven responsibly. I use a John Deere Gator to maintain my properties and to haul stuff to and from hunting camp. Unfortunately, it only takes one irresponsible rider to do significant damage to the ecosystem. How do you effectively deal with the significant minority who are wreaking havoc on the environment?
Not for them. Not against them. Other than the way Keith above uses them, don’t see much point in them.
Speaking personally, like snowmobiles and boats, they cost too much for what they do.
Don’t have a problem with them being used as long as they stay off roads used by cars and don’t go on lands where they are banned. Other than that, don’t care.
ATV riders do little to help their cause. The road I live on is not open to ATV use yet they ride up and down it regularly (as do snowmobilers in winter). I make a point to listen for the whine when pulling out of the driveway as I was almost broadsided once in winter when snow banks hid a speeding rider.
I can see a use for 4 wheelers on farms, in woodlots, etc. but it seems that when they are used for “fun” they are more destructive than anything. I’ll probably be dismissed as grumpy but if you want to enjoy the outdoors, walking works great with the bonus that you can actually hear and see wildlife.
What did farmers, woodlot owners do before there were ATVs?
Hank,
horses, and old pick-ups.
While I don’t own an ATV, I can concede their usefulness to get around the farm or the woods when you don’t have a horse.
I do chuckle when I see the big get togethers of ATVs and/or snowmobiles. I wish I had the fuel that is wasted at one of these things. I just figure it’s a sign of the economy getting better when people have money to buy ATVs and the gas to run them.
The ATVs frequently pass by my house. Most of the time with no helmets and often going faster than one should go in a car on my country road. I guess it’s a good thing we don’t have too many bears jumping out in front of them.
To each their own. ANYTHING goes these days.
The majority of people I know who own a wheeler use it for work of one kind or another. Of the small number who own it just to joy-ride pretty much all of them would be much better off financially if they didn’t own it. Or their snowmobile/boat/jet-ski/whatever other waste of money toy.
We need $5.00 per gallon gas to put some of these silly toys to rest.
Well you might as well include power boats! They are loud noisey and pollute our water ways and hurt the eco system! Are they a “silly toy”?
I think Keith summed it up best.
I live in Lewis County and this isn’t the first law suit filed to close the cobbled together trail system. Former County Legislator Bruce Krug has been very outspoken in his distaste at what he views as being an illegal trail system and the waste of tax payer dollars that are spent on the “Trail Coordinator” position and dept. He was party to a lawsuit a few years ago. Our current county leadership views the ATV phenomenon as being the savior of our local economy and thus seems willing to go to any length to support it.
I think there’s a place for ATV’s as long as they’re used responsibly. I see ATV’s driven on my country road nearly every day. It’s a closed road with little to no enforcement whatsoever. Most of the riders are responsible and drive slowly. But, of course, there’s two or three youngsters who feel the need to modify their exhaust pipes so the rest of the world can hear them coming and going for miles around. Nearly every afternoon, like clockwork, they scream down the road going as fast as possible. Youthful discretion’s I suppose.
My biggest problem with all this is the inconsistency with which our county leadership addresses various activities in our county. They’ll do everything to support certain activities (ATV’s and Snowmobiles), but the opposite with, for instance, a highly successful and lucrative music festival (moe.down). I think there’s a place for all these activities. But develop them legally and be consistent in how you treat them.
Clapton/haynes,
Summer music festivals are a great idea, would like to see something along the lines of an Adirondack version of Burning Man too.
I’m an avid music festival attendee, but have never been to Burning Man. Maybe someday. I think in a better economy, the North Country could really capitalize on our love of live music. The current festivals still held regularly seem to do well. And moe.down is still hugely successful for not only the moe. organization, but Herkimer county as well. A big loss for Lewis County, the Town of Turin, and the many not-for profits and small businesses that made substantial funds from the event.
I love that so many of you are commenting on how people in these economic times should not be spending money on ATV’s. I greatly appreciate the financial planning that you are compelled to offer me, however, i think i can handle my accounts on my own.
All of the other arguments address issues that there are already against the law.
People Ride to Fast – Already Illegal
People ride without a Helmet – Already Illegal
People ride off the trail – Already Illegal
People ride on closed roads – Already Illegal
You aren’t addressing the issue of a trail system, you are just saying i have seen people do things that they shouldn’t. With that same logic, i am against music festivals because i have seen people do drugs at them. NOT IN MY TOWN MR!!!!
With an integrated trail system (much like the Hatfield-McCoy Trails http://www.trailsheaven.com) the ATV’ers would have a place to go, and would stay off of your closed roads.
The trails would be maintained by clubs, the same way that snowmobile trails are, and the economic impact for gas stations, restaurants, hotels, etc would go a long way toward helping those who cant afford recreation in these hard economic times.
Heavy, you may be right that an organized trail system would alleviate some of the problems. It may be a very safe sport and that too much negative media coverage has given it a bad reputation (it isn’t much of a story when a crash does not happen!). But in the area where I see lots of riding it seems like every month or so we have another ATV related injury and this is in a very small town. The laws that require lower speeds and helmets and other precautions don’t seem to be working around here. A law that is ignored is pretty worthless and this is an area where policing is not easy to do so where does that leave us? If we can’t get law enforcement out here to curb some of the problems, and it obvious that the idiotic parents in this area (they are often the ones doing the things you list above around here, heck I see guys with small infants riding on handlebars, it is insane!) are not making any effort to teach their children, quite the opposite in many cases, that what are we left to do? Just like it is illegal to produce and sell bombs and other things that are extremely dangerous when not handled properly to the general public maybe these things need to be illegal or much more highly regulated. If you have a better answer I would be welcome to hear it.
Heavy, I understand that some people just can’t have fun without burning fuel but I’d be happy to buy a ball for people to play catch with. Or they could learn to WALK on the trails breathing fresh air and listening to the sounds of nature.
knucklehead… There you go again grouping everyone. Do you honestly think everyone can throw a ball or walk a trail? One thing ATV have done is allowed disabled people to enjoy some remote areas of our VAST park. I would suggest you be more sensitive to the needs of others. Why should’nt they be allowed to hunt, fish and just enjoy the beauty? Do you walk to work? Try biking and save gas.
knucklehead… You got my blood pressure up! I have a very close friend who lost both legs fighting a war for this country. He wants no sympathy and finds ways to do things. He loves to hunt. Using an ATV he hunts and climbs up a ladder to a tree stand. I’ll introduce you to him so so can tell hime you’ll buy him a ball so he won’t use gas!!!!
I am offended by people who try to use someone else’s disability as an argument to push their own agenda. The state of New York and local governments provide many opportunities for people with disabilities to undertake activities such as camping, fishing, experiencing nature, etc. as well as museums, galleries, and community activities.
And just yesterday I heard a story on Fresh Air about a guy who lost both legs who climbs mountains.
Also, your friend just might enjoy the ball I buy him.
Just for your information, I DO NOT have an agenda! I do not own a ATV or intend to purchase one. I do have a slight disability myself and can put myself in the position of others with much worse disabilities! Your response couldn’t be more inaccurate!
knuck.. Better yet maybe you would prefer I call Pat and have him respond to your response?
Knuck… On third thought, I do have an agenda. It’s not the agenda you tried to pin on me! I think my agenda should be clear to most people.
I think if you really look, or better yet, ride the ATV trail system in Lewis County, you’ll see it is not an integrated trail system. I believe there’s the potential to create one, but the problem seems to be certain interests would not necessarily be included in a legal, responsible system. As it is now, it seems to be set up in order to serve those interests legality be damned. Which is why we have the various lawsuits.
I don’t own an ATV but have several family members and friends who do. As far as I can tell they use them responsibly. I do own a snowmobile and occasionally use the trail systems supported by the county. As I said in my previous post, I only wish our county would be consistent in how they treat all recreational activities. All of which include bad and illegal behavior.
Heavy, do you really think SOME of the thousands of snowmobiler’s and ATV enthusiasts aren’t consuming copious amounts of drugs and alcohol on any given weekday or weekend much the same way some music festival attendees are? Of course they do. I suppose the difference is music festival attendees aren’t typically endangering others by getting behind the wheel and driving. Again, my problem is we treat these activities, and the negatives that come with it, differently. That shouldn’t be the case in my opinion.
Clapton, i do agree that there are individuals that drink and drive on ATV’s. My point is that the argument should be with the illegal behavior, not with the legal activity that is being done at the same time.
Knucklehead. I have fun doing a a lot of things. If you enjoy bouncing a ball and listening to the sounds of a tree, have at it homie. Occasionally i will walk out and plant a big wet one on a maple myself.
If that is all that you want to do, enjoy yourself, there are a lot of places for you to do just that. I on the other hand enjoy a lot of sports that go require that devil juice “Gas” OOOOuuuuuuuu….
I do have an agenda. I enjoy ATV’ing… and snowmobiling… and boating… Isnt that the point? I dont feel like i need to preface that with some additional “greater good” that gives me the right to be pro ATV. Its fun, plan and simple.
The trails already exist (for snowmobiling). They are maintained by people like me in the winter, and i might even content that if they were open in the summer for all to use, there would be less damage done because there would be many more conscientious people like me watching over them, making sure that a few people were not ruining for everyone.
Knuckle, you are not allowed to hike the majority of the trails i am talking about anyway, so there is no chance that your ball would bounce into the trail and you would get hit. I think there is enough of NY for everyone that wants to get out and enjoy it without people like you saying that it is only for hand holding and tree smooching.
“I think there is enough of NY for everyone that wants to get out and enjoy it without people like you saying that it is only for hand holding and tree smooching.”
This is a great remark!
Wow, I guess some of you are a lot more sensitive than I ever would have guessed.
Maybe the state should have an ATV/Tree Smooching park available for those who are into that sort of thing.
It is nice that a person can go back on this blog and see what was actually said, then they might see for themselves that I never even suggested that someone should prohibit joy-riding on an ATV. In fact, I wrote that most people I know who own them bought them for useful purposes.
Maybe breathing all those fumes has limited your reading comprehension.
Oh, and I love the “devil juice” comment. Can I use that?
Re: 5:17-
Absolutly not!
Sorry, maybe i was thrown off by you suggesting that Gary’s veteran double amputee friend should play with a ball rather than be able to get out and do things that he enjoys through the use of an ATV. Maybe i didn’t comprehend what you were really saying.
Or perhaps you wrote something incredibly stupid and when someone addresses what you are really saying, you threw up your hands and said “Whoa Whoa Whoa… i never said you shouldn’t ride an ATV for recreation.. why are you so sensitive?”.
If you have stance on this issue, which obviously you do, at least have the conviction to stand behind it.
And Satan, can i still use “Devil Juice”? If not, i understand, and i will try to not be so sensitive about it.
I am an avid snowmobilier, ATV’er, boater, and owner of a big truck that gets really crappy devil juice mileage. Do I have a hatred of the environment, no. But I see the main purpose of working my but off during the week is to be able to afford the recreational outlets that I enjoy.
Are there some bad seeds out there that give ATv’s a bad rap, absolutely. But isnt that the case with everything? (loud cars, motorcycles, hippies singing cumbaya too loud, and dont get me started on those damn boom boxes). I have to agree with Heavy on this one, an organized and maintained trail system will provide so such more in the way of economic benefits to communities, gas stations, restaurants, etc. Some of you are sounding like you are complaining about using gas on these toys, so? What about the store owner in your small town that I buy the gas from? This type of ignorance that something like this would not be beneficial is exactly why young professionals like myself are moving out of the area, because people are afraid of change and growth, which in turn negatively effects the economy and then there are no jobs other than minimum wage McDonald’s Worker that complains about not having any money to buy toys let alone be able to put gas in one.
Coming back to topic, the trail system, if properly maintained and policed would be great for everyone involved. Everyone of course except the ball that I run over with my ATV.
I wasn’t the one who brought up double amputees.
I have friends and family who have had unfortunate circumstances but I’m not going to bring up their problems in a discussion with a third party who obviously NEVER referenced them. That’s just bull.
Heavy, I do have an agenda and I think I was very clear about it. I think that ATV’s are a useful tool and I don’t condemn people for using them but I am uncomfortable with people using up scarce resources just to have fun. But I am NOT against having fun. I have ridden on wheelers and snowmobiles and such; they are a lot of fun. But there are other ways to have fun that don’t affect other people to the extent motorized vehicles do and I would prefer if more people chose simpler entertainment. As my mother said, masturbating can be fun but there are other fun things in life.
As for double amputees using ATV’s, I would consider that to be using the ATV for a work or transportation purpose and not under the category of just having fun for the sake of fun.
Don’t get all mad at me for bringing up coconuts if your brother died from having a coconut fall on his head. I mean no offense.
Jeezum Crow! I’m the bleeding heart liberal for cripes sake!
If you want socialized recreation just say so. Be man enough to say “I like socialism, otherwise I’d only ride my wheeler on my OWN darn property.”
This issue is like gun ownership and use. If you follow the rules, there shouldn’t be problems. If you do whatever you want to do, then there’s problems.
I own a 4 wheeler that I use to plow my driveway in the winter. I also enjoy recreational riding and belong to a local club. Our rides are well organized, we follow all the rules and go slowly and carefully. On my most recent ride which covered just over 50 miles, I used just under a gallon of gas. Granted, I had to transport my machine out of St. Lawrence county due to lack of an integrated trail system… but I’m hopeful. When we stopped to eat (sans alcohol) it was unfortunately out of the county and that’s where the money went. I’ve been pretty impressed in Jefferson County as the Sherriff’s Department patrols their trail system. They are friendly but are there to make sure everyone plays by the rules. Do I want to ride everywhere? No, but I would like to be able to ride somewhere. Responsible ATV riders will bend over backwards to work together to find a solution we can live with. We just ask the same from the other side. We would prefer to work together rather than making the lawyers rich.
Walking, or hiking, also has the added benefit of burning calories, not gasoline. And walking does not generate either the air pollution or noise pollution that running an ATV, or ORV, or whatever folks choose to call them, does.
So here’s the deal. There is nothing wrong with having a little fun; It is really hard in our age and society to have some fun without burning Devil Juice of one form or another. When I go to my hippie commune Fuzzy Duck reading get-togethers I have to burn some gasoline to get there.
The internal combustion engine is very useful and people have devised many devices that save work and make people more productive using internal combustion engines. Lawn mowers, chain saws, weed whackers, ATV’s…all great things in their place. And it isn’t all that bad when there are only a few people running a few motors. But doesn’t it ever get to you to have all these things running constantly. It is nearly impossible to enjoy a quiet afternoon in your yard without hearing a constant drone of engines and smelling unburned fuel. I go out in my backyard in the dead of winter and instead of crisp clean air I have to breath the exhaust of snowmobiles. In the summer it is the drone of jet ski’s in the distance. Fall brings constant leaf-blower action and summer is prime lawn-mower season.
We are human beings; we were not meant to breathe unburned hydrocarbons. We were meant to live in a world of natural sounds –tittering birds and the wind in the trees. Is that wrong?
The problem is that some of us try to live in a way that affects the rest of us as little as possible and some of us don’t give a damn about anyone else as long as we are having fun.
That is the problem I have with Proud Devil Juice Burners — they are an indication to me of people who don’t give a damn about their fellow man. They don’t care if I have to breath their filth or hear their noise. They don’t care if spinning their tires in dirt kills plants or creatures that have as much right to live as they do.
The thing is that most liberals are far more old-fashioned than conservatives are. We believe that the way we live affects others and that it isn’t our right to negatively affect other people or other living things just to have a little fun.
I’ve read all of your posts. The dictionary defines knucklehead as: “a stupid person, blockhead”. Say no more, get it!
Could we agree that an integrated trail system could be a usefull network of routes for any use? x-country skiing, walking, bike riding, horseback riding?
It wouldn’t just have to be motorized uses.
Most all of our roads started out as foot trails.
If it were possible to use a snowmobile and a sled to go grocery shopping, getting into town via a back woods short cut, wouldn’t that use less gasoline than taking the pick-up?
One group or another shouldn’t spoil, or bennefit exclusively from the trail system. That give and take should be inherent in our nature, rather than splitting hairs over our individual devices (vices!)
It’s like a comedy of drug addicts arguing over whose drug of choice should be more acceptable, without regarding the bigger picture of addiction.
Obviously some uses (users) are less intensive, invasive, “green”, than others are. That will change when the technology changes. God forbid, we may all be riding goat carts into town in time.
The trick is to be able to tolerate without feeling dissrespected. That you gave up something precious for another to callously trample upon with no thought.
It all boils down to the Golden Rule (and not the “he who has the gold….” rule.)
Bottom line for me is i would like an alternate route to anywhere, when the mood strikes me, and i think as long as it dodesn’t cut accross Bret’s pasture, he might even agree with that.
Hillary 012; just wanted you to know I gave you a “like.”
Whenever I can get someone to open a book, especially a dictionary, is a good day.
I’m glad you learned something!
I live on a dead end road, where a family of “quads” with children, all under 10yrs.of age, and their friends, ride around for hours. As long as they don’t destroy my property or scare my family, I tolerate this.