Dear Upstate: evolve or die…
Actually, the headline from yesterday’s New York Times Oped contributor was “Struggling Towns Must Evolve or Die” but it amounts to very much the same thing.
The Times posed the question “Can New York be Saved?” to a number of people, and got a variety of thinking. Mitchell Moss’s response caught my eye. It’s pretty short, but here’s the takeaway:
The entire state cannot survive if we continue to act as if all 62 counties can flourish.
(snip)
Albany needs to make a strategic decision to invest in a handful of places upstate that are willing to do the serious work of revitalizing their own economies and that have the right mix of educational institutions, skilled labor and entrepreneurial know-how to compete in the 21st century.For the rest, we must accept the inevitable. Across the Midwest and Great Plains, state governments have allowed towns with a proud past but no discernible future to fade away. New York must do the same.
Moss, a professor at NYU’s Wagner Graduate School of Public Service, argues that New York State spends billions propping up communities of the past (he mentions Buffalo, “the city of the future”) while letting the infrastructure vital for growing urban areas (that would be New York City) go begging.
It sounds unnecessarily brutal. But you don’t have to wait for a change in state policy and priorities to see how brutal. Drive anywhere in this region for very long and you’ll find yourself on a formerly thriving Main Street, with vestiges of small city architecture of the 19th century left. And much of that preserved by, well, “preservation” grants and subsidies.
Do communities like Plattsburgh and Potsdam and Saranac Lake have the potential to demonstrate Moss’s “right mix of educational institutions, skilled labor and entrepreneurial know-how?” Is there a place for small towns? I think yes; that’s where we live. So yes. But how to bend the curve away from the trajectory Moss sketches?
Joshua here. Part 2The usual response to this is cannot be done because of long bus rides. One school district does not mean one school building. We might need five high schools, ten middle schools and fifteen elementary schools. Many of the current buildings could be used with some alteration or expansion. In terms of local government, we have a city, villages, towns, and the county. The duplication of services is enormous and un-coordinated. In most states, there is not an equivalent to the town in New York State. If you do not live in a city or a village, you get your services from the county. One highway department! No stopping and turning the plow around at some theoretical 19th century line. One entity repaving and repairing roads. That would just be for starters. Many of the costs for materials, fuel, insurance, and out sourced services would be reduced with one large entity as the purchaser. Coordinated with a county school system, the savings could be even greater. Ultimately, there would be fewer jobs in the public sector but as the changes would evolve over time; the reductions would be largely by attrition. Hopefully, growth in the private sector would increase in response to these changes and keep more people in the county. Another aspect of the public sector problem is the services that government supplies to non-taxable entities. Now, such institutions only pay for water and sewer services if the buildings are attached to a public water system. The law needs to be changed so these institutions can be charged a fee for some of the other services they receive; for example, fire and police protection. As it stands now, if we do not do something drastic, the county will depopulate to a significant degree. St. Lawrence County lost about 9% of its population between 1990 and 2000. We will soon know about 2000 t0 2010. It is not only the number of people leaving. It is also who they are. It is our young adults who are leaving and most especially our most educated and most skilled. If we are not proactive, in another generation we will be the West Virginia of the north.
http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/saipe/national.cgi?year=2008&ascii=I am not beating up on NYS particularly the North Country. I choose to live here I think we have relatively good schools, not great but good. I send my children to them and have been happy.But we are NOT a wealthy state we are a objectively a poor state as far as poverty goes. In childhood poverty NYS ranks number 36 in the nation. For general poverty we rank number 35 out of all of the states. We are near the bottom is the truth. So do not be deceived that these high taxes are helping the poor or alleviating the suffering of those less fortunate.
Anon 5:18.Did you buy the second home on the adk waterfront and if so are you assessed at that value or more? Yes, way more.I have seen people pay huge sums, tear down the camp that is there build something new and then complain about their tax bill.It is the same small cabin that was built there in the 1940's. Like I said I am just shocked at what I pay given that I do not receive (nor need) any services. I am not complaining, just explaining.
Surrounding states poverty rankings from lowest to highest.New Hampshire 1 (lowest in nation)New Jersey 3Connecticut 4Vermont 13Penn 22Maine 26New York 35West Virginia 48So in literal terms of poverty we are indeed closer to West Virginia than we are to Vermont or New Hampshire.Among NYS 62 counties, Saint Lawrence County ranks near the bottom in poverty, particularly childhood poverty. An objectively poor county in a poor state. I like Saint Lawrence County, given our circumstances we do GREAT, but we cannot blind ourselves to the hunger and poverty that surrounds us, we are not Vermont or New Hampshire.
I do not believe we do “blind ourselves to the hunger and poverty that surrounds us.” We have CDP, its Neighborhood Centers and Headstart. The Catholic Charities, Salvation Army, the Council On Religious Concerns, and many other organizations do much to alleviate the effects of poverty. Then the governmental programs like food stamps, HEAP, and Medicaid. The working poor carry the real weight of poverty. They often earn too much to get into these programs and have a very rough time of it especially in the winter or if they become sick or have an accident.
Hi annon8:10I don't disagree with you. Those are all great agencies and I support them totally.I was mainly responding to another poster. Also you are right there are a bunch of people who make just a little too much to get any services yet don't make enough to really make ends meet.Also like I said I really like the NC and I like SLC. I just think it is somewhat unjust for us in our planning to forget these people and I know you don't.
Mervel, it is interesting that NH, NJ and CT are at the top of the list for states lowest poverty rates. I wonder how the rates are calculated, but there is plenty of poverty everywhere, even those states. Consider that the Too Rich to Tax often make their money in NYC and Boston but live in, where? NH, NJ, CT. Hmmm?
I think Joshua makes some good points. The day of the tax free, taxpayer supported or subsidized church, college, school or other entity has to come to an end. While I tend to agree with Carols assessment of our local (SLC) colleges being a drain, I wonder if there has been any recent, non-partisan studies done on the total cost of local Gov't support to our colleges and universities vs how much they actually put back into the community. Potsdam for instance spends huge amounts of money to basically clean up the mess the local college brats make. SLU is pretty much a self contained castle where the royal subjects need not dirty themselves by leaving the campus. No, I don;t have much use for the sacred institutions of higher education,, but I would be willing to change my opinion if some hard facts were available.I also would argue that our local school systems could definitely use some of Joshuas ideas. Each little school district becomes a mini-state it seems and comes complete with corrupt rulers and incompetent leaders. Think it's at least worth exploring the idea of a county wide consolidated district.Someone mentioned our highways being so much better than North Carolinas. My friend, take a ride across St Lawrence Co rt 10 some day, one end to the other. Make sure you use a little extra Polygrip and some Tucks pads would be a good idea too. Then travel some of the side roads in Lisbon, Madrid, Parishville, etc. Best get your alignment scheduled now, you'll need it.I don't think we get a fair shake from downstate, I know much of the rest of Central and Western NY feel the same way. So tell me why we're not moving the Captial to Syracuse and telling the Capital District and those south of there to become the City-State of NYC while we become North NY or what ever we'd call ourselves?
"Each little school district becomes a mini-state it seems and comes complete with corrupt rulers and incompetent leaders."Your point about school districts becoming mini-states may have some validity. However, I wouldn't agree that they necessarily have corrupt and incompetent leaders. Are there incompetent teachers, principals, superintendents, board members in some districts? Absolutely. But making a generality such as you did ignores the very stressful and competent work most of our districts perform year in year out in an enterprise unlike any other.
"I wonder if there has been any recent, non-partisan studies done on the total cost of local Gov't support to our colleges and universities vs how much they actually put back into the community." Bret, all this data is readily available but you have to dig a bit. I am afraid for you everything may seem "partisan". But it think you can get what you need. I think in most cases the overall impact of these institutions is net positive. There may be exceptions.
Mervel,Excellent points. People often think NY has an extravagent welfare state. Actually, our public assistance, unemployment, and works compensations benefits are all at or below the national average. It is the hugely expensive and wasteful Medicaid program, multitude of local governments and school districts, workplace construction liability costs, lavish government employee benefits, and high state and local debt service cost that are repsonsible for NY's high tax burden. Carol and Brett,i disgree strongly with your comments about higher education being a burden on local economies. Local colleges employ a lot of people and the students patronize local businesses.5:17,Many retired local government and school district employees have their health insurance paid for. Some retirees can have their health insurance costs paid for after only five years of employment with their respective local government. Unfortunately some public employees like St. Lawrence county CSEA members, who recently rejected a proposed contract, haven't gotten the message that business as usual is unsustainable.
Public employees get their health care the old fashioned way; 'They earrrrrn it" They are not on welfare. They are part of a collective bargaining unit that negotiates their compensation some of which is often health care.
I never said public employee's health care is welfare, just that it is a substantial expense. As for "earn it" goes, what about the small percentage of do-nothing workers who cannot be fired due to civil service and tenure laws?
Scratchy- just out and say TEACHERS. The laws need to change, tenure is an outdated idea.
There is a good idea. Work to change the tenure law. I'd add to it a nepotisim clause that not only administrators but school board members must sign.
I think this discussion is off topic but it is remarkable how often this discussion evolve into negative discussions of teachers or other public employees. There is a certain absurdity here but I will have to answer the challenge again. There is great misunderstanding of tenure. All tenure does is require a fair hearing of professional charges against a teacher or other professional certified under Education Law and regulations issued by the Commissioner of Education. It does not guarantee anything other than that. A tenured teacher’s position can be eliminated and that teacher is dismissed. Tenure does not guarantee anyone a job.In the hearing, a neutral individual or a panel of three in some cases listens to school board’s case against the teacher and a defense of the teacher. There are witnesses, a lawyer for each side, and a verbatim transcript is made. After both sides present their cases, there is a ruling. If the ruling is for the school board, punishments can include long or short-term suspensions and dismissal. The often repeated idea that a teacher has to be convicted of a felony to lose their tenure is incorrect. The school board does not pay for the teacher lawyer which is another common misconception. The tenure system was created in response to school board corruption in hiring and firing. Boards fired teachers to give board members relatives a job. They fired teachers because they did not approve of the teacher’s ethnic, religious, or political affiliations. They often fired teachers to bring in someone they could pay less. Boards fired people for many reasons not related to teaching performance. I have attended school board meetings in several differ districts since 1964 which is to say for the last 46 years and have no doubt that these abuses of board prerogatives would reappear if there were no tenure.Now let’s get back to some discussion of real and practical solutions to our problems like the structural changes that were being discussed.
Public employees should not belong to unions.I don't have problem with them having health care but they should not belong to unions and they should not have tenure.Getting rid of unions would get rid of several huge lobby (special interest) groups
Anon 8:52, you have to be kidding. I can give you multiple examples of teachers who never even got to the hearing stage before the Union and Administration quietly pushed everything under the rug(sex with students/providing alcohol and drugs to students/physical abuse of students/inappropriate behavior (forcing a 6th grader to smoke a cigarette, verbally abusing a child whose mother got divorced, telling the child her mother was a "whore") I'm sure I can find other people with more dirt.The tenure system itself is fine. In practice it's just a shield for the incompetent, lazy, burnt out, perverted and other ne'er do wells. I'm sure not all school systems are as bad as the 4 I've dealt with, but the system itself needs some revamping at the minimum.
The questions raised on these comments and in Brian's blog are central to the economic development of the Adirondacks, which I believe are poised for expansion based on a few things. First, the restrictions of "Pocono Style" economic growth of the 70's-90's have left us with an environmental treasure that makes it a great place for people to live. Second, the economic engine in the US is increasingly leaning towards design and away from manufacturing. Third, this is an inexpensive place to live and recreate. What we need is an influx of educated people who will revitalize the communities of the park, and we need to market what we have: nice small hamlets with access to recreation. And we should focus on certain hamlets and let others survive as commuter towns, supported by public transport. One of the many things we have to overcome is the provincial thinking that tends to distract political will from forward progress. Articulating an economic plan may be a way to do this, a plan based on the natural wonders of this place.We also need brain gain. I meet hundreds of people (literally), who want to move here for the lifestyle. We need to make it easier for them to do so. And we need to market the idea that we have beautiful small towns surrounded by a beautiful, accessible, and free wilderness. In response to the article, then, we simply need to develop an economic plan based on our environmental and aesthetic assets, market that plan, and watch the park population slowly grow. We also have to limit the mindless arguments that dominate the political and legal landscape of the park and get on with it.
Vendair, I think that your "plan" makes some sense. However, it is not that inexpensive to live in the area. I also know many folks that would love to move to the area. What is stopping the ones that you know from moving here now? The ones that I know are unable to move to the area due to the fact that there is a lack of ways to make a good living. In my opinion that leaves only 2 real options. One is to get some sort of “industrial” (for lack of a better word) base. That seems unlikely. So that leaves building an economy based on the tourist industry, which maybe you are leaning towards. That is what you seen in most economically healthy small towns (for example Vail and Aspen Colorado, or Jackson Wyoming, or many other small mountain towns). These are places like Saranac Lake that at one time had a solid industry (Mining in Colorado and The Sanatorium industry in Saranac Lake) and have had to adapt to changing times. Some have adapted better than others. Part of the problem in the Adirondacks is that to build that type of economy would take the type of large-scale development that is widely opposed in the Adirondacks and across NYS. These are not "mindless arguments" but real issues. What do you see as the basis for a growing (even if slow) economy?
Pete Klein,I agree that public employee unions are too politically powerful. Banning public sector union membership, however, would violate workers' constitutional right to freedom of associaiton. Overhauling this state's incredibly loose campaign finance laws would be a better way of reducing union influence. In addition, NY businesses need to do more to act as a counterweight to the pro-taxation, pro-high cost of doing business philosophy of the public employee unions. I'm not saying business interests are alway benevolent, but there needs to be more of a balance. I agree with Paul, the lack of good paying jobs is a serious problem in the Park. The APA needs to make this as well as the relative high cost of housing more of a consideration. The problem with tourism jobs is that many of them do not pay well and some do not offer health benefits. This is part of the class divide in the Adirondacks of the struggling private sector vs. the more well of public sector and seasonal residents.
While tourism will continue to drive the economy in the park, we will see an influx of people who work extended weekends in the park. Rather than being second home owners, the flexibility in the workplace is allowing people who live elsewhere to spend an increasing amount of time (and money) in the park. This is certainly happening in Lake Placid. Many work three days in Albany, or NYC, and work two days up here, splitting their time equally and supporting the local economy. This model, along with the idea that people can run businesses from their homes, needs to be aggressively marketed. I am not saying that many local people have the educational background or the financial resources to work from home, but they will obviously benefit in secondary industries. The growth needs to come from bringing people from outside to stimulate the future growth of the park. Research (and personal experience) indicates there are simply not enough advanced human resources to grow from within. We need some brain gain to launch this economy. It's starting to happen. Towns like Keene are way ahead on this, working to attract outside families to sustain the town.
Vendair,Not all communities have high-speed internet, which is essential for what you're describing to work. Is there anywhere in Hamilton County that has high speed internet?
Vendair, what you propose sounds exactly like what we've seen happening for years- wealthy people buy a home and drive up land values while taking their income from elsewhere. This leaves the locals (the uneducated lower classes) to live in trailers and work menial labor as the serfs of those with the educational back ground and financial ability to draw their wages in NYC, Boston or elsewhere while having a permanent address in Northern NY.Huh, and they wonder why we feel like the outsiders look down on us…
Tourism produces mostly seasonal minimum wage jobs with no benefits. If that is the best we can do, we will depopulate and the brain drain will continue.
The vast majority of the people who live in the NC don't live in the Park.The Park is a GREAT asset and its protection over the century has made it unique. But come on, what does the park do for Malone, Massena, Plattsburgh, Ogdensburg, and Loweville? Tourism does spill over, but you know one prison pumps out 22 million bucks per year in payroll and we have I think ten or so prisons up here?I am not advocating prisons I am just trying to put some things in perspective.
Market the area as a retirement area. Service industry would prosper and schools could be downsized. Tort reform and stop plowing every state road 24-7. Finally let some roads go back to dirt and enjoy the rural adirondack park. We do not need to be a population center.
Do you expect me to believe these horror stories about teachers? I have heard similar stories before and they never check out. Any kind of sexual conduct with students would be immediately reported to the State Police. The charges will be criminal and if there is a guilty verdict, the Commissioner of Education will withdraw the person’s certification. They will be listed as not eligible for certification and their name and particulars will be sent to all US states and territories. Furthermore, this information will be sent to all the English speaking nations. Anyone who participates hiding this information from the police or State Education Department is subject to a Part 83 hearing and the loss of their certification as well.As far as the teachers’ union goes, they do not defend teachers accused of criminal acts as differentiated from the violations of regulations. They do not supply defense counsel to those subjected to Part 83 hearings. No teachers’ local union would support such a person or tolerate such a person on the faculty. Any real violation of standards should be brought to the attention of the Superintendent of School or the police as appropriate. If the superintendent does not respond, which is extremely unlikely, call the president of the school board. If that does not get a response, call the office of the State Education Commissioner’s office directly. The State Department employs two investigators to check into charges. Frankly, I think you are just repeating the myths that are often heard around here. Let’s face it; there are a lot of people who just hate teachers.
Two points.We have good classroom teachers up here in my experience. It is a hard job and a VERY important job. I am against paying our public employees so much more than the private sector, however in this case I would be in favor of paying classroom teachers MORE than they make now. (not administrators, janitors, buss drivers, resource room people, counselors, and so forth though).As far as sexual abuse goes the schools have the same problem that any other institution does. What do you do with unfounded accusations against a teacher from one student or more? The unions do protect teachers who have accusations against them, they may be removed from the classroom but they can in some cases still draw a check, unless of course they are convicted of sexual abuse, but that is very rare for any case of sexual abuse. It is not crime that includes witnesses beyond the victim and then it is the students word against the teachers.But I don't think it is any bigger problem in the school system than it is anywhere else.
It seems teachers' pay varies widely from one district to another. They are probably underpaid in some districts and overpaid in others. Though I think given the economic climate, there should a temporary freeze for all government employees, including teachers. I agree that most public schools in NNY provide a good education. There are teachers, however, that have issues with classroom control.9:20,As someone who has driven on Big Moose Road, I don't think going back to dirt roads would be a good thing.
Anon 9:27- Yes I do expect you to believe it. I was there, I saw it first hand.Not all teachers are that bad, but there are enough. Funny, if I said the same things about police I doubt anyone would doubt me.
Anon 9:27 here.If you witnessed it, why didn't you report it. What ever you may believe, the system is not currupt and it does work. Teachers have been removed from their positions for action less serious than the ones you mention. They end in resignation to avoid hearings in most cases. Think back to the serious cases of abuse at Colton and Canton, both within the last thirty years that did become public, not only professional discipline but prison as well.If you want to be believed, you have to be believable. That such serious offenses against children are unknown, except to you, is just not believable. The topic here was "Dear Upstate: evolve or die" ends up being a discussion of teachers. There have been many times on this blog this has happened. Any comments as to why?
It was reported, time and time again is the case of one teacher north of Lake George. The schools response was to place a "classroom assistant" (bodyguard) with that teacher. In the cases of some of the others the reports were not acted on at all or were quickly shoved under the rug. People like you that make excuses for teachers and the system that protects the unsuitable ones are part of the problem. When you report issues to the administration and are directed to jump through hoops it just makes things worse, but most people won't go through the hoops because it's too much trouble. Methinks thou protest too much….
A. People got bad grades.B. People can't stand it when others have something they don't have, like job protections and health insurance. So nobody should have them.
Anon 9:31 said:"The topic here "Dear Upstate: evolve or die" ends up being a discussion of teachers. There have been many times on this blog this has happened."In the case of the In Box, it might be due to the fact that NCPR does not provide a "bulletin board" type venue where visitors can start conversations on topics of their own choice. So they turn the blog conversations they do find toward what they want to talk about.Dale HobsonNCPR web manager
The teacher and health insurance/tenure, etc, etc comments are red herrings and have nothing to do with the economic health of the north country. We should be focusing on eliminating the layers of government and consolidation and sharing of services.
It is undeniable that property taxes and the quality of public schools do have an impact on the NC's economy. School taxes make up the bulk of the property tax burden for most localities. In addition, I think most would agree good schools have a positive economic impact. It is difficult to have a discussion of either education or property taxes without mentioning teachers. Therefore, I do think it is appropriate to discuss aspects of the school system including benefits and state regulations like tenure. Both of those do have an impact on the running of schools, expenses, and possibly the quality of education. We can disagree on whether tenure and generous benefits are good or bad, but we should be able to agree that they do have an impact. To simply say they are not worthy of discussion doesn't make any sense.
Part 1I thank all those who answered my question of why teachers almost always become a significant topic in these discussions. There are some people who hold a permanent enmity against teachers as a result their experiences in school. There are others who resent paying school taxes. There are others who think teachers are overly privileged in terms of their salaries, benefits, job security, and are somehow protected when they commit crimes against children. Finally, there is the high level of anti-intellectualism and bias against “book learnin” in the North Country. I have been accused of “protesting too much”. I will set aside the inference of that statement and stick to the facts. In the period, 1991 to 1996 all the accusations against anyone certified under the education law came across my desk if the accusations had any substance or facts behind them. What wasn’t of substance? Common complaints submitted against teachers were that they should be dismissed because they were employed in a part-time job that was “unfit” such as working as a bartender. Other complaints, like that a teacher was pregnant out of wedlock or did not seem to a person of good character were regularly submitted. This made up about 80% of the complaints. This left about 100 complaints of substance a year. They were investigated by a team of consisting of a highly trained detective and a lawyer who would serve as the prosecutor if the charge went to hearing. They were assisted by the state police, local police and county sheriff departments. Since the statute of limitations does not apply to administrative procedures, the State Education Department could pursue cases that could not longer be criminally prosecuted. Investigations resulted in about 50 cases being dropped for lack of evidence. In other words, a credible case could not be built against the individual being investigated. The other about 50 cases were presented to a committee that functions like a grand jury and decides whether or not to proceed. Almost all the cases that reach this level go forward. The individuals charged receive a letter from the commissioner suspending their certification which effectively removes them from the classroom. They are given a short period of time to either accept permanent removal of their certification or request a Part 83 hearing. The great majority of the individuals will accept removal of their certification. The relatively small number that requests a hearing are found to be guilty over 95% of the time. It needs to be pointed out that most of the charges involve being arrested and convicted of crimes outside school such as drug charges and aggravated DWI. Extremely few involve crimes against children. Some of these hearings involve people who are applying for certification and are being refused because of a previous conviction. Every applicant is subjected to a criminal record check. The rules on hearsay evidence are much less strict, and the “beyond reasonable doubt” standard of guilt is replaced by “preponderance of reliable evidence”, a much lower standard of guilt.
Part 2I do not think it is ever possible “to protest too much” to stop someone or punish someone for a crime against a child. The idea that it is just too bureaucratic or time consuming is ridiculous. I accept that among the over 200,000 professionals and para-professionals working in New York schools, there are some that have victimized children. These cases get the highest priority from law enforcement and State Education Department. Most of what I hear locally is myth. I used to occasionally go to Nin’s restaurant for breakfast in Norfolk and hear all kinds accusations against teachers and the school. Very few of accusations had any basis in reality. To listen to the people at Nin’s you would think their lives would be perfect if it wasn’t for school taxes, the school itself and the teachers. The invective against teachers and school administrators, mixed with occasional anti-Semitism and racism, was at a level I would have never imagined. I hope this was the worst case scenario and not typical.
Crimes, especially sexual crimes, against children are horrible. The only thing worse is murder.That said, I do believe the whole topic is getting out of hand and is ignoring where most of the sexual crimes are being committed.I am speaking here of parents, siblings and other family members, plus friends of the family.I am saying the problem is not confined to teachers, coaches and priests.I don't think I have ever heard a story on just who produces "child porn." My guess is that it is mostly done by parents and other family members. Just days ago there was a story about a sister selling her young sister for sex at a party.The problem is far deeper than just church and school.
So anonymous Part 1+2, you reviewed ALL cases and you say there is no time limit? Great, would you like to look into abuse cases occurring in Warren county in the 70's, Hamilton Co in the 80's, Franklin co in the 90's? Because the reports then were ignored or swept under the rug. No two ways about it.
Part 3That's right! No statute of limitations applies. I know that in the mid 90's, a case from the 70's was successfully prosecuted. If you have direct knowledge of abuse, you should report it to the SED. It is rare that these perpetrators have a single victim so an abuser first Identified in the 90's may be abusing. Also, those persons who “covered up” abuse can be held responsible and have their certifications removed as well.If you report directly to SED, nothing can be swept under the rug. Every report receives a preliminary investigation and then goes through the process previously described.
Joshua here.I think Scratchy, has gone back to my original point. At least one of them. If we want to lower the cost of delivering educational services to our children, I believe a county-wide school district needs to be investigated. A study was done previously by BOCES and I will try to access that. I will also contact the relevant committee chairs in the State Senate and Assembly to see if any studies have been done on the state level. I will pass on what I find out in future “The In Box” postings.
Anon. 1, 2 & 3:I don't know about generally, but I know about one case where the system failed:Previously, at another paper where I worked in NYS, we investigated a case where parents came to us complaining that a middle-shool teacher was having sex with their 13-year-old child. We looked into it and wrote numerous stories over a period of months. I was convinced, and so were others familiar with the details of the case, that the teacher was having sex with the student. The teacher was prosecuted under the 3020-A process and the hearing officer determined the teacher had behaved inappropriately and ordered a suspension of several months. The next year, the teacher was back in the classroom and still is, I think. This story played out in the 1990s. Where was the state, in terms of revoking this teacher's license? Where was this investigative process you tout? Where is it now? If you tracked the student down, the student, now an adult, would probably reveal the truth about the relationship. Whay hasn't this been done over the past two decades? From my experience, you show too much faith in a system that does not deserve it.
My experience mirrors that of some of the other posters. While there may be laws and policies in place to prosecute teachers who violate law/protocol it seems that justice isn't handed out evenly, if at all in some cases. I know of one teacher, now retired I believe, that was an out and out sociopath. She got away with it for years through political connections. In another town in the Tri Lakes region I overheard students discussing which teachers they were having sex with. I thought they were joking at the time but later found out it was well known.I can only hope todays system works better than it did a mere 10-15 years ago.
I acknowledge the system is not perfect but it has many successes and is usually competent. I offer the following St. Lawrence County examples:The Jackson case in Colton where certification was permanently withdrawn.The Seymour case in Canton where certification was permanently withdrawn.The special Ed. teacher case in Madrid-Waddington where certification permanently withdrawn.The business teacher who was dismissed after one month on the job in Massena when the SED uncovered a 20 year old charge of child abuse and certification was permanently withdrawn.The music teacher at Norwood-Norfolk who resigned as charges were being investigated and his certification permanently withdrawn.What you overheard students talking about without verification is really not proof of anything. “Everyone knows” would not be accepted as proof of anything at trial, in a hearing, or in journalism. The result of a 3020-a speaks for itself. The incident was of a much lower degree than you may think it was. Although the rules of evidence are much more relaxed in administrative hearings then in criminal trials, saying something is true is not enough. An outcome of a 3020-a like the one mentioned would certainly have prompted an investigation of that individual to examine whether the SED should proceed with Part 83 charges. If you would really like to clarify what happened in the unnamed case, the verbatim transcript of the hearing would be on file in Albany.If the situation involved sexual abuse, the case would have gone directly to the Part 83 without a 3020-a hearing and, of course, there would have been criminal charges as well. If you are correct, the only conclusion I could come to is the district failed, the SED failed, law enforcement failed, and the district attorney failed. I don’t think that kind of systemic failure occurs very often.
Man, with all that super duper knowledge on tap I'm completely convinced our education system is flawless. And the economy is on total recovery and ugly people will soon be good looking.Yeseree, it's all perfect now that an unnamed bureaucrat has made a couple blog entries.!
chagnaActually, the first line was “I acknowledge the system is not perfect.” It fails but if those who “know” of serious crimes against children do not file complaints with the authorities, don’t blame bureaucrats, blame yourself. Talk is cheap, especially on the internet, and sarcasm is even cheaper. I have removed many abusers and incompetent teachers from the classroom. What have you done? I suppose your mentioning the economy is just another sign of your frustration. Take some personal responsibility. Treat every child as if they were your own treasured child. Put your credit cards away and live on what you make. Taking pot shots at people who actually have direct knowledge about the topics being discussed is a mark of ignorance.