The North Country preacher and the end of the world
In case you’ve missed it, there is one particular flock of Christians convinced that the end of the world is nigh…as in, very nigh indeed.
May 21st, to be exact. Check out NPR’s story on the end-times prophecy here.
Talk of millenial doom (for sinners) and salvation (for the saintly) is a more or less constant part of the human condition, in all faiths and all eras.
But it turns out one of the biggest end-time dramas played out right here in the North Country.
In the 1840s, a Baptist preacher from the Washington County town of Low Hampton named William Miller rose from obscurity to lead the early “adventist” movement, which came to be known as “Millerism.”
He claimed that the Second Coming was about to occur when the wheat would be separated from the chaff. With his followers, he established October 22nd, 1844 as the fateful day.
The so-called Millerites waited eagerly, but nothing happened. “We wept, and wept, till the day dawn,” one of Miller’s followers wrote afterward. The day was rechristened by many adventists as The Great Disappointment.
“Some are tauntingly enquiring, ‘Have you not gone up?'” Miller himself wrote afterward. “Even little children in the streets are shouting continually to passersby, ‘Have you a ticket to go up?’“
There was a certain amount of scandal and Millerites faced mockery, scorn and even some hazing and violence.
But in the way of such things, a lot of Christians continued to believe and these days Miller’s North Country home is maintained by an Adventist congregation as a historical site, complete with an “ascension rock.”
I know it’s futile, but in cases like this I am always a bit baffled that devout Christians — Miller was obviously no huckster — would ignore that most explicit of warnings in the book of Matthew.
The Bible can be tricky and vague and complicated, but this particular passage is straightforward, warning bluntly about “false prophets” who claim to know when the end-times will occur.
“But concerning that day and hour no one knows,” Jesus is quoted as saying, “not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”
Tags: religion
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I await the 21st of May with the same trepidation that I awaited the computer disasters of 1/1/2000. NONE!
I was planning to fertilize my lawn that day. Should I put it off?
The current May group is led by a guy named Harold Camping. Harold has run a radio ministry for quite some time, he advised his followers to leave all organized Churches some time ago as they were part of the “beast”. Anyway he is an engineer and really into the technical details of parsing out scripture, he has this deep monotone voice. I used to listen to his radio broadcasts in the 1990’s, he was pretty good actually.
This is too bad that he has gone down this path of date setting and really what amounts in my mind to a cult like mindset where he has these poor guys driving around the country in vans.
Tom Robbins has already masterly satirized this apocalyptic theme in his brilliant novel “Skinny Legs and All.” Well worth the read!
I don’t know how anyone who claims to be a Christian can come up with dates for the end of the world when Jesus said, “Only the Father knows.”
Very weird and highly presumptuous.
And it’s more than a bit worrisome that a chunk of the American electorate (and elected) base foreign policy decisions on End-Times requirements for the Middle East. I do sympathize with the rest of the world trying to cope with us, armed to the teeth and prone to wackiness as we are.
And, in the isn’t American capitalism great division, apparently there is already a firm which for a fee (in advance of course) promises their staff (all athiests) will care for your pets after you go up in the Rapture.
Maybe it’s something about Hampton which has as its other claims to fame that it is the home to well known Bigfoot and UFO sightings in the late 70’s. There are those who claim to have seen Bigfoot more recently there but are more quiet about it to avoid ridicule.
Those sightings were actually quite close to William Miller’s church. Maybe there is some sort of vortex there?
In the beginning God said “Let there be light”!
I have a question. Who was He speaking to?
RE: amaredelectare, Himself
Who was he speaking to? You.
I keep hoping that some sort of rapture will come and take these good folks away…from me…Be sure to take Newt with you too.
The end of the world comes in two ways, and both are not known by us.
1) we die
2) Jesus returns
Be ready, either way.
I kind of have a problem with mocking someone’s religious beliefs. No I don’t think we can assign a date to the return of Christ, but I do believe Christ will return, there is not a large jump between that belief and what you are all making fun of.
There is a fine line between having a sense of humor about something and mocking it. Usually people only get upset about people mocking their own particular belief (not saying that is the case with Mervel) but I hear people’s beliefs being mocked all the time; towel heads, Mormons, Hindus and cows, Buddhists..
Fred: I won’t ascend if I can’t bring my pets!
I side with Sue. It seems rather presumptuous for humans to think they are the only one to get an after life.
Maybe presumptuous was and is the Original Sin?
I would hope that when I am done here with this life, I could go to a place where I am surrounded by my many dog friends who have gone before me.
There can be found goodness in all dogs, but I am not so sure about humans.
I hear those same comments also Knucklehead and they upset me just as much as the sort of religious intolerance shown here does.
In this case I think Harold Camping is wrong but I don’t think he is any more wrong than many other religions I don’t agree with; but do respect.
JDM is correct in my opinion; two things are going to happen.
Hey Mervel, isn’t it cool that here in the enlightened and socially conscious In Box where all views and welcomed and tolerated that you can get 3 “dislikes” for your 10:40 comment supporting tolerance?
i agree with you, bret. likes for both you and mervel!
Darwin refined his science of Evolution in the 40’s and 50’s; 1840’s and 1850’s that is! From that time forward, we’ve discovered the atomic theory of matter, chemistry including physical chemistry, genetics, geology, biochemistry, DNA, astrophysics and cosmology. Not one of these disciplines has disproved Evolution, in fact, they’ve all served to prove it over and over, time and time again. Evolution is the single-most proven of all the observational sciences, but only a fraction of Americans understand this fact.
Why? Because manipulative attitudes and practices that exploit people’s needs, weaknesses and lack of education through proselytism of religious memes replicated horizontally through generation after generation spread much more quickly than the old parent-to-child methodology. Those that essentially believe that God planted all the fossils throughout the world intending to play mind games with scientists as new ones came to light need to think over the implications of such nonsense that would undoubtedly embarrass a 12 year-old who escaped his education from an area infested with fundamentalists.
Anyone who takes the ridiculous view that people of faith discount evolution entirely or that people of faith are simpletons incapable of reasoning is as much an idiot as those few who cling to the belief in the mother ship coming to take the believers up.
Look in the mirror, prejudice and intolerance work both ways.
Nurturing these ancient fear-based religions such as Islam and Christianity, which are encrusted with out-dated commandments directing old-world moral conduct, supports competition for each faith to protect its institution and it’s worn out doctrines all of which retards the evolution and progression of consciousness and complexity in society. A large percentage of the world’s population is functionally unable to distinguish genuine insights embedded within their religion from the irrelevant accumulation of fabled, fictitious myths and legends intended to instruct us morally. Hundreds of millions have perished at the hands of those unable or unwilling to recognize this simple truth.
Archaeologists have uncovered a story of a garden of paradise and the beginning of sin, including a virgin mother giving birth to a baby from a godlike creature, in cuneiform characters and inscriptions from recorded ancient history in caves in what was once called Sumer over 2,300 years prior to the Bible. Most reasoned scientific scholars now believe the Christian Bible is a plagiarized version of this earlier fable.
To suggest a belief in Evolution running concurrently with belief in an ancient fable (pick one) is suggestive of being conscious of total truthfulness while repeating carefully orchestrated lies; to hold simultaneously two positions which contradict and cancel each other and believe in both of them; to suffer from illusory superiority unable to deny or appreciate mistakes.
i have to ask, the people who are giving dislikes to mervel’s 10:40 comment, what are you objecting to/disapproving of?
My guess is hermit that most people don’t really want to make fun of someone’s faith, but the negatives are because I said I did indeed believe Christ would return. For whatever reason religious faith discussion always get people riled up.
Actually Armar the fact that there is evidence of Christ prior to the words being written down in the bible would make total sense to a Christian. CS Lewis called these the good dreams of ancient history portending the future. Historians have pretty firmly established authorship of the New Testament, sure those guys could have all been lying, but those guys were in general with some variation who they said they were. But anyway I respect atheists particularly the proselytizing type such as you, but I find is that most of the time we are all just preaching to the Choir. According to Christian faith people believe in Christ not because of the proof or lack of proof but because of a supernatural act of the Holy Spirit to create faith. The faith that we have is now and ongoing and experienced, it is very hard to argue someone away from that. Besides that it makes me very happy.
But anyway there are really some amazing fascinating variations of beliefs in the United States and I think it strengthens us as a people. We should respect old Harold just as much as we should respect the Muslims who want to join our communities in a larger way.
Mervel: I was not among those that checked “dislike” on your posts. I, too, think it’s because of your statement attesting to the eventual return of Christ. Thank you for your latest post. You’re right about strengthening our respect for each other. I can tell from your words that you’re a respectable person. Have a nice day.
You have nice day also Amaredelecture I enjoy your posts.
Amar, re your 9:35 post- your position is as bone headed as those you list! Try wrapping your mind around the fact that there are a lot of people who can have faith in a higher power, that there is an interconnectedness among us all, that there is a a reason for all this that we may simply be too stupid to comprehend, and that have no wish at all to make war or to limit others beliefs or lack of faith. Every time I run into someone stating a similar view as yours, I’m always amazed at the arrogance and close mindedness you display. In short, you’re a bigot. You may not realize that or think of yourself in those terms, but you need to get beyond your hate.
Bigot? Science is not about faith or for that matter, bigotry. Science is about evidence. We have evidence that there are approximately 100,000,000,000 stars in the Milky Way galaxy. We have evidence that the Milky Way is a fairly average galaxy. We have evidence that there are approximately 300,000,000,000 other galaxies in the universe (not counting isolated non-galactic star clusters). Thus we have evidence that there are approximately 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the known universe (give or take a factor of 10). We have evidence that planets are common, in fact usual, around stars. We have evidence that the elements of organic life are abundant in the universe.
Consequently, the chances that we are alone in the universe, which is put forth in the Bible, are so vanishingly small means that faith is not needed.
If you’re comfortable believing in donkey-riding gods, so be it. I think the problem here is that your understanding of Darwinian evolution has been screwed up by obfuscations that Creationist opponents of the theory of evolution have been putting forth intentionally for well over a century. Why do these Creationists need to be so deliberately and aggressively ignorant? Perhaps they have a regressive brain mutation that hinders critical thinking and replaces it with blind faith. Will this be the gene pool where tomorrow’s leaders and critical thinkers come from?
Huff and puff all you want, Bret 4207, but where are your facts, not fables?
Hi Armar
You think President Obama has a regressive brain mutation? I think you and Bret may have more in common than you think!
I’m an atheist. There is simply no evidence that a “God” exists. On the other hand there is no scientific evidence a God does not exist and there can never be any such scientific evidence.
Science isa system of evidence based rational thought. Faith is something else. There is no contradiction between science and faith as long as you understand that your faith does not need proof. Nothing is more annoying than a religious person trying to “prove” the existence of their own personal mythological being, except maybe an atheist trying to prove that the mythological being doesn’t exist. Nor is there any way to scientifically prove that God didn’t create a Universe in which science works.
Often religious people make the mistake of thinking that without religion there is no morality. I have found that many of the most moral people I know are atheists and I have seen that there are plenty of “religious” people who lack the morals they profess.
So believe whatever you want. But if you are religious and you have a position of some authority over other people don’t make important decisions for other people based on your particular fairy tale.
KHl, and I have found many of the most immoral people I’ve come in contact with are atheists, or profess to be. What both you and Amar show is a profound lack of respect for others beliefs and faiths. Science and religion are often one and the same, yet you refer to religion/faith as a fairy tale but you cling to scientific fairy tales like the “Big Bang” theory. Before there was nothing and then somehow it all appeared? It just came to be? Science and faith and morality and consciousness all mixed together gets you bigots and fools. What group you fall in depends almost entirely on your perspective.
Amar, more hate? Get over it. Disprove the possibility of intelligent design or of the soul. Best of luck to you….luck, dang, more faith!
Jeezum Bret, stop foaming at the mouth for a second and read what I wrote not what you think I wrote.
And I happen to like fairy tales; there is a lot of truth in them. We like to call them
“metaphors.” Just don’t make public policy based on what a water nixie told you.
Bret, no hate here at all; simply a fascination with your steadfast adherence to such a permanent pattern of religious memes produced by such acts of human intentionality by ancient tribes with very limited intelligence and virtually no access to scientific data whatsoever. I’m not in the least filled with hatred when I read emotionally charged defenses nor when egos strive to defend the very survival of these out-dated replications.
Many adults have moved away from the continual negative reacting to the programming of their childhoods, finding that their emotional and mental needs are left unmet by their seemingly inescapable enshrinement in the wisdom of the past. They’ve discovered these old defense systems actually cause their adherents to further wound themselves while trying to defend such antiquated notions.
The fact that I freely and openly discuss this on an internet forum suggests in no way that I have hatred or animosity toward others who believe differently. That you react with such aloof contempt suggests something resonating within you.
Hi Amer.,
Do you assume that by definition ancient people have less wisdom than we do just because of a random time event determining when they lived? Certainly I would agree that that the ancient people that we know of or can guess at did have less access to the scientific method. But I think it is a very dangerous assumption to believe that human progress moves only forward in time and that we have nothing to learn or gain from the ancient cultures and peoples of the world.
Anyway I agree with Chesterton who said “”Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative.” It takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian or Muslim.
Also for most religious people that I know, their faith is not negative in the least for them, particularly for the Gift of having been shown and experienced that faith in their childhood. I think you have created a caricature of faith and religious devotion.
Mervel, I did not suggest that we have nothing to learn or gain from the ancients; nor did I at any time state that I was an atheist although I do reject the tenets and traditions of formal religions as incompatible with reason or logic.
In my opinion, an atheist should be able to prove the non-existence of a god or gods and conversely, a person of faith, i.e. a believer, should be able to prove the existence of a god or gods. I have never seen proof in either direction squarely putting me in the agnostic camp believing that a person’s mind cannot know whether God or gods exist or whether or not there was or is an ultimate cause or anything occurring beyond material phenomena.
Monotheistic religions rose to power by physically crushing previously powerful institutions and remain in strength by replication of memes, continued predation and by exploiting weaknesses of believers. Fear-based religions such as Christianity, Judaism and Islam were much more successful in ancient times at scaring believers into obedience. In general, people are becoming too educated now-a-days to be frightened into memberships in these cults.
But that is not really true historically.
In addition as someone on the inside; I just don’t see any of this fright business you keep talking about. I am sure there are some cults out there that do what you say finding vulnerable people, exploiting them and using fear.
But how is President Obama a professed believing Christian being exploited by his weaknesses? How was Jimmy Carter or Martin Luther King jr?
Take a look at some of Francis Collins work on the compatibility between Christian faith and scientific thought it really is pretty good.
When a believer is first drawn into monotheistic orthodoxy, it is assumed that he or she is imperfect -in fact stupid and foolish- before the orthodoxy and only through them can one pursue and obtain betterment. This can be viewed as an admission of weakness.
The ways that Obama, King, Jr. and Carter were exploited are the very same ways in which any member is. They were lied to. Lies are the basis of the structure. Through repetition of lies, members are convinced to look at all other religions as false information irrespective of any truth that may be a part of the tenets. Members are encouraged to display unquestioning commitment to the belief system and are discouraged from and punished for dissent. Members are dictated to by leadership in great detail on how to feel, how to act, to dress, to marry, to discipline children, to view politics, etc.
The leader is considered the Messiah or other exalted special-type being who has a unique role in saving mankind from its stupid and foolish self. Members are instructed early on to develop a polarity between non-believers; a “them-against-us” mentality. Power and control of group members is held by leaders and the doctrine itself inducing shame, guilt and fear. Often a required subservience dictates a person radically alter personal goals.
Other forms of exploitation are found in a preoccupation with gaining new members, pressure to make money for the group, to spend substantial amounts of time and money on the group and to the extent one can, to socialize with only other members of the religion. Fear of reprisal is constant if one even considers leaving the membership.
These conditions are present in all fear-based monotheistic religions similar in many ways to membership in cults.
Amer said: “In my opinion, an atheist should be able to prove the non-existence of a god or gods and conversely, a person of faith, i.e. a believer, should be able to prove the existence of a god or gods.”
Actually, I had a dream once that I was saved from a certain death by God. He thought the conundrum of an atheist saved by a being I didn’t believe in was funny. He didn’t have a problem with me not believing in him. If God thinks it’s okay that I’m an atheist who am I to argue?
Hey Knucklehead, if you refrain from eating peanut butter and bananas before bed you might cut down on the fantastic dreams. :)
“They were lied to. Lies are the basis of the structure. Through repetition of lies, members are convinced to look at all other religions as false information irrespective of any truth that may be a part of the tenets. Members are encouraged to display unquestioning commitment to the belief system and are discouraged from and punished for dissent. Members are dictated to by leadership in great detail on how to feel, how to act, to dress, to marry, to discipline children, to view politics, etc.”
Gee Amer, no hate there. Sounds almost exactly like what is being forced on us by our political masters under the heading of “political correctness”, ‘hate crimes”, gay rights, etc. Your adherence to the mistaken belief that anyone of faith is incapable of making a sound judgment, because they’re STUPID, is more arrogance piled on the hate.
Bret, your relentless, stubborn persistence to label factual scientific data and rational opposition to religious wisdom from the early ages as “hate” is certainly curious. Referring to conditions such as “Political Correctness”, “Hate Crimes”, “Gay Rights”, etc., forced upon you and others who have the same beliefs, by the government, is too broad and lacks any factual development, vague or otherwise. I am unable to converse with you on such hazy matters.
You have an unquestioning belief needing neither proof nor evidence that I “hate” monotheistic religions; in a sense you have faith that I hate religion. Such a faith serves to block you from deepening the discussion, in effect condemning you to the tragic fate of repeating the same worn out old memes in defense of your loyalty to your choice of ancient fable, or man-god religion if you prefer.
Wisdom may be found throughout monotheistic religions. However, the fables are no longer necessary along with the cult-like structure which commands believers into war after war as newer memes struggle for recognition and power.