The myth of the lazy American
The latest painful wrinkle in the Trayvon Martin case offers a chance to talk about one of the most dismaying myths shaping the political dialogue on the right: The notion that poor and unemployed Americans are lazy grifters.
This week, a Florida fire captain tangled himself up in the scandal surrounding the slaying of the 17-year-old unarmed Martin, by posting an argument on his Facebook page disputing the notion that the teenager was killed because of “racist profiling.”
Instead, this government employee argued that Martin’s parents were to blame. He claimed that urban kids have been let down by “their failed, sh%$tbag, ignorant, pathetic, welfare dependent excuses for parents.”
The facts in this case are starkly at odds with that claim.
Trayvon Martin’s mother — yes, she’s a single mom — also works as a government employee at the Miami-Dade Housing Authority and has been working there for more than two decades.
Her son had some trouble in school, including suspensions, but had no criminal record, and was unarmed when he was killed.
The reason that this one reality-bending rant warrants attention is that it echoes a larger claim simmering among conservatives — including some who post regularly here on the In Box.
The argument goes that poor people, unemployed people and people of color are lazy and that they are largely to blame for America’s economic malaise. If it weren’t for the malingerers and mooches, we’d be fine, or at least in far better shape.
The notion of a large, welfare-dependent underclass has been a theme on the right for decades, typified by the argument that “welfare queens” and illegal immigrants are illegally gaming the system.
Again, the problem with these arguments is that the facts — and these are facts, not opinions — simply don’t bear them out.
Consider again the claims of that Florida firefighter. By his construction, “urban” Americans who are “welfare dependent” are ignorant and pathetic.
But the number of unemployed blacks in the US nearly doubled during the recession, surging from roughly 8% to 16.7%.
Does that mean that the number of lazy black people doubled in a couple of years? Did the near collapse of the US economy coincide with a decision by millions of blacks to quit work and put their feet up and start drawing welfare checks?
Of course not.
What happened is that this recession sideswiped the black community, driving millions into poverty. Desperate? Yes. Pathetic? No way.
Remember, these aren’t the people who tanked the banks or wrecked the housing market. These aren’t the people who handed out the pink slips.
And it should come as no surprise that as soon as some jobs became available again, blacks eagerly went back to work. (The unemployment rate for African Americans is now at 14.1%.)
But the conservative argument about America’s poor isn’t just limited to blacks.
Paul Ryan, chief architect of the Republican Party’s spending plan, has argued that the social safety net in the US is at risk of becoming “a hammock which lulls able-bodied people into lives of complacency and dependency.”
Get it? America’s poor are staying at Club Med, coasting in comfort on your tax dollars.
Through the recession, the GOP argued repeatedly that even basic unemployment benefits might be an incentive to workers to stay on the dole and not go back to work.
Reflecting that philosophy, Republicans rolled out a new plan this week to cut social programs sharply. This from Politico:
From food stamps to child tax credits and Social Service block grants, House Republicans began rolling out a new wave of domestic budget cuts Monday but less for debt reduction — and more to sustain future Pentagon spending without relying on new taxes.
But the reality in modern America is that most of our poor are in families where the parents are, in fact, working — sometimes two or three jobs.
Indeed, many of our social welfare programs — from health care to food stamps — go to families that are working as hard as they can. They’re just not earning enough to make ends meet, or to pay for basics like regular doctor visits.
A new Bloomberg editorial points out that a growing number of Americans are working minimum wage jobs, jobs that pay so poorly that it requires 100+ hour work-weeks just to pay for rent.
It’s also becoming clear that many Americans are being forced to take lower-paying jobs and that a low-wage bias is creeping into the economy, as Bloomberg economist Joseph Brusuelas recently put it.
In many cases, minimum-wage work is all that’s available, which may explain why such workers are older and better-educated than they were three decades ago.
Those people aren’t bums. They’re bailing the boat as fast as they can, but the math is against them.
And what about those people who can’t find work? Millions of them were employed just a few years ago, many clinging desperately to the middle class.
Did they suddenly lose their work ethic? Did they suddenly become “pathetic” and “ignorant” loafers? Did they decide that paying their mortgages just wasn’t that big a deal? Of course not.
It may be, of course, that Democratic solutions to poverty and long-term unemployment are the wrong ones.
But one thing is certain: simply relabeling struggling Americans, as sleazebags and dependent bums won’t get the job done.
Brain, this is a silly post. Why try and pit the left and the right against each other like this. What the country needs to do is come together in the middle. This kind of post will get your readers (left and right) all worked up (and looking at the website and its advertisers) but what else is the point?
Instead of highlighting a “reality-bending rant” ignore the idiot and maybe the country will start to come together.
Paul –
Paul Ryan’s quote is not from one idiot. He is a senior GOP leader, articulating a view of the world — yes, shared by this fire fighter — which is widely held on the right.
That view is clearly, explicitly shaping Republican policy, from food stamps to unemployment benefits to student loan programs.
To question this meme about who poor people are, to challenge the factual basis of the claim, isn’t silly.
–Brian, NCPR
Not a silly post at all, Paul. The idiot’s comment is not the isolated view of one crank — it’s part of a larger rhetoric. And there’s a strong case for believing that the shooter’s self-righteous neighborhood-watch paranoia was fueled by precisely the sort of rhetoric this idiot and many others air in our public forums.
Hard work and self-responsibility are excellent values, and we should be free to criticize freeloaders. But poverty is built into our system, and the odds are stacked against many people. Aside from that, the offensive assumption about Martin was completely unfounded.
Brian’s point about the real numbers is the key here: the biggest and most ungrateful recipients of our tax dollars are huge corporations. Nobody likes a shiftless neighbor with a messy house and yard, or the idea that some people aren’t working as much as we think we are — but that’s small potatoes in comparison. I say this is an important point that needs repeating.
Brain, you are lumping the ridiculous with comments made in a very different context together in some sort of an attempt to sensationalize. Why put the two together? For example it doesn’t look like that Ryan comment (as odd as it was) said that welfare was any kind of “club med” as you describe it. That is silly and probably inaccurate description of his comment in my opinion but maybe you have more information. If this was just a blog about GOP policy that would be one thing but to combine it with the “idiots” comment is strange if you ask me.
The liberal view is primarily to give a man a fish. The conservative view is primarily to teach a man to fish.
The bottom line is we need welfare reform. It is a program that does provide the potential for laziness when abused – no matter what one’s race is.
America’s poor are not staying at Club Med. But many are taking full advantage of the system. I’ve personally seen it. So, we need a system that will not allow for that. That’s what Paul Ryan was talking about.
Terence, I agree the topic is a good one but I think that lumping these things together and framing it this way is not helpful.
The view that the system is in need of repair is not a crazy view. If you have that view you are portrayed as someone who doesn’t care about the poor and the needy, or that you want to throw grandma under the bus. Too bad, but we are not able to have rational discussions anymore in many parts of this country. I am sure the one that will follow here will be another example of that.
Paul Ryan’s quote is not from one idiot. He is a senior GOP leader, articulating a view of the world — yes, shared by this fire fighter — which is widely held on the right.
Articulating a view of the world? Shared by this fire fighter? Widely held on the right?
I don’t know of any conservatives with this viewpoint.
Let me say again: I don’t have any problem with differences in approach to helping poor people and low income workers.
If the Republicans want to come up with a great new system for — in Kathy’s words — teaching people how to fish…great.
What I’m pushing back against is the idea that a significant chunk of America’s poor are too lazy to fish — or that American social programs are so generous that the encourage people not to fish.
This is explicitly what many conservative thinkers have argued.
–Brian, NCPR
Kathy – You say that you don’t know any conservatives who hold this viewpoint. But here’s your In Box comment from last month:
“”It’s not the government’s job to care for the poor and downtrodden that live this way by choice and believe they are entitled. We’ve created a monster.
“If a man will not work, he shall not eat.” 2 Thessalonians 3:10″”
I’m arguing here that the facts don’t bear out your argument. Which it’s A-OK for you to disagree with.
But you can’t suggest that conservatives don’t hold this view, when you’ve articulated it yourself…
–Brian, NCPR
And one more thought:
A fascinating aspect of this conservative “myth” about poor people is the notion that their economic status reflects their moral status.
And a good number Christian conservatives have embraced that argument, as Kathy’s scripture citation suggests.
This is a profound reversal from the way Biblical teaching once shaped Christian thought — and it is a rare area where much conservative evangelical thinking parts ways with conservative Roman Catholic thinking.
Pope Benedict has taken a fairly aggressive line against the “lazy poor” concept. Here’s an example:
“The disparity between rich and poor has become more evident and more disturbing, even within the most economically advanced nations…I encourage, then, an increase in efforts to eliminate the causes of poverty and the tragic consequences deriving from it.”
–Brian, NCPR
Well, folks, I hate to be the first to tell you but right up here in the Tea Party land of the North Country, almost all getting any kind of government assistance are lily white. And I’ll bet you many are members of your beloved Tea Party.
Be careful of who you want to cut the safety net from. It might just be you if you get laid off or sick.
And those of you who don’t want to see the minimum wage go up because you think everything will cost more, when was the last time you looked for work up here? Hardly any of the jobs up here can get anyone to work for them at minimum wage.
Correct if I am wrong, but I don’t believe McDonalds or Stewarts pay only the minimum wage.
If you want to put a noose around your own neck and think any of the rich or those in power will feel sorry for you and maybe come to your assistance, go for it and see what happens.
Kathy,
The approach some “conservatives” favor is to give the poor fishing poles, but block access to the lake. And Pete brings up an excellent point. How many of us who complain about “freeloaders” are making our way without government help? Finally, anyone who has lived in the North Country knows how absurd it is to associate welfare with people of color.
I don’t know of any conservatives with this viewpoint.
That’s odd. Most of the conservatives I know do seem to have that viewpoint. Go check out some of the comments from conservatives at the Enterprise blogs.
I agree with Paul’s opening remarks. If anyone is to blame, it’s the media! Why haven’t I seen a post on the liberal NBC’s apology on the tapes? Maybe the libs stick together in attacking the right! This post does nothing but create problems just like the NBC showing of the tapes.
Paul” that is one of the most empty meaningless comments I’ve seen in a while. Let’s all come together? What does that mean? Come together around what? It’s empty, feelgoodery that means nothing and adds nothing.
Brian M: excellent post. I’m tired of hard working Americans being demonized. THAT is an idea we should be coming together around.
Paul Ryan’s budget is the most pernicious form of socialism: taking from hard working Americans to give to “defense” contractors for crap we don’t need.
In my years working for DOL I did in fact see a few people try to take advantage of the system but the reality was that they were on both sides of the fence, workers & employers. Of the two, employers tended to be the most egregious with scams that “laid off workers” but continued to have them work under the table so that the employer could undercut the competition. Yes, employees went along. It was a case of go along or lose your job altogether and these were people who couldn’t afford to lose their job. When they got caught the employees were the ones who got in trouble. The employers somehow never got punished in my experience. I saw other scams where employers would game the system to gain economic development money (tax dollars) for things that clearly did not meet the criteria. I recall one situation where I complained to Albany and it ended with me being told to back off. Politicians get contributions from employers but not from most workers. Unions have set up political action funds but the right has branded them as “special interest groups” while calling industry PACs “loyal Americans” fighting to take back the country from the socialists who want to turn Americans into dependent layabouts. The money game is stacked. Those with the money have the power and use it to funnel even more of the money to themselves. How do you think the one percent got to be the one percent? Hint: It wasn’t by the sweat of their brow.
I’ve been poor most of my adult life. I’ve known and worked with lots of poor people, lots of middle-class people and a few rich people. In my experience everyone is pretty much the same. There are lazy people in every class and there are hard workers in every class. And there are lots people who are taking advantage of government benefits of one kind or another in every class.
Brian: “It’s not the government’s job to care for the poor and downtrodden that live this way by choice and believe they are entitled. We’ve created a monster.
“If a man will not work, he shall not eat.” 2 Thessalonians 3:10
This doesn’t mean I have included every single person who is poor and downtrodden. The statement included by choice.
The scripture is directed at lazy people.
Paul Ryan’s quote is not from one idiot. He is a senior GOP leader, articulating a view of the world — yes, shared by this fire fighter — which is widely held on the right.
Brian, you stated that Ryan’s statement shared the view of the fire fighter who said: “their failed, sh%$tbag, ignorant, pathetic, welfare dependent excuses for parents.”, and this view is widely held on the right.
Let me say again, I do not know conservatives who talk like the firefighter, I do not believe it is “widely held” by the right, and because Ryan identified a problem doesn’t mean he shares the fire fighter’s view.
“Paul” that is one of the most empty meaningless comments I’ve seen in a while. Let’s all come together? What does that mean? Come together around what? It’s empty, feelgoodery that means nothing and adds nothing.”
Sad comment Brian. But it is the view of many people in the country and gridlock is the result.
“Paul Ryan’s budget is the most pernicious form of socialism: taking from hard working Americans to give to “defense” contractors for crap we don’t need.”
Liberal talking points 101.
Again his budget like the president’s is simply a starting point for the discussion. Liberal’s dismiss his, conservatives dismiss his and there we are more gridlock. Too bad.
Pope Benedict has taken a fairly aggressive line against the “lazy poor” concept. Here’s an example:
“The disparity between rich and poor has become more evident and more disturbing, even within the most economically advanced nations…I encourage, then, an increase in efforts to eliminate the causes of poverty and the tragic consequences deriving from it.”
First, not every poor person is lazy. Whoever “out there” says that is wrong.
Secondly, the Pope is right on. Why? Because the burden rests upon the Church, not the government.
“Let’s all come together?” Brian (MOFYC) hits the nail on the head.
Maybe someone can tell me one instance in which conservatives have “come together” with President Obama in a true “give and take” that resulted in some major legislation. I can’t think of one.
Having read through all the above comments, the one figure that has not been cited is that, while food stamp use has increased, the welfare rolls have not increased to any significant degree. Thus the Clinton era welfare reform is “holding”. In the North Country, there have always those who “got their twenty weeks” and then worked under the table while drawing unemployment benefits. Did anyone call them shiftless of lazy?
PNElba, I think the best chance to make any progress (that is assuming that anyone in Washington wants to) is to deal with it just like you would any negotiating session that hits this kind of road block. Both sides have made a major blunder in this regard they have opened this latest round again by insulting the other side. I think this is a bigger mistake for the administration (with their “social Darwinism” comment. This immediately poisons the well and I see this as a lack of leadership on the part of the president. Ryan and others have made the same error but for the opposition it isn’t as bad since for them the consequences of inaction are not as bad. Assuming they can stop acting like children (highly questionable) and move beyond this the next thing to unlock the skids is to agree on some of the tings they agree on an do those. For example both Ryan and the president think that corporate tax rates are too high. To lower these we are going to have to try and close some loopholes. Suggesting to do this only for oil companies again locks the skids (poor negotiating). If they broaden this to cover more than they could maybe come to an agreement. Baby steps.
Kathy,
turn your radio on. The AM and FM dial are filled with people who talk just like Paul Ryan and that pitiful fire captain. If you say you don’t know any conservatives who talk or think like that, I will have to concede that is possible; it just isn’t likely.
As for “welfare reform”, this was done substantially in the 1990s when Bill Clinton worked with the controlling Republicans. Most of that reform is still in effect and has actually worked to limit perpetual dependency. What we need is a congress and president who will work together again; we don’t have that now.
And while I am retired military, there is no doubt we spend WAY too much on defense (particularly including weapon systems). We do it because weapons systems are jobs and pork for legislators
Wasn’t it the president that said that American’s are “lazy”? He did, and he is/was right. Here are the facts. Romney took the comments out of context and tried to twist it (and go 4 Pinocchios) but the president was right. It has noting to do with welfare:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-obama-call-americans-lazy-and-soft/2011/11/18/gIQAO5hMZN_blog.html
It isn’t “poor” people that game the system it is slackers. I can’t tell you how many guys I see in the North Country that go on unemployment when deer season rolls around!!
A little off track (maybe a lot) but the Pinocchio tracker has the president and Mitt neck in neck:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/fact-checker-fact-or-fiction/
I am surprised that the VP is doing so well. The last time I heard him on TV he was off the charts “uncle joe”. For example he said that that GM was the largest company in the country (what are they like number 12 maybe?) and that the auto bail-out saved something like 200K jobs at GM (I think they had like 115K jobs before the BO?) and other such nonsense. Crazy. BTW I think that Joe Biden is great guy. He just doesn’t often get it right! But if he wasn’t on the ticket I might not have voted for Obama last time.
As a just society we have a social responsibility to provide a safety net that both provides true security and does not create dependency.
Poverty is increasing because real wages are falling for the middle income and for the poor at least in the US. Most poor people work, very few poor people do nothing. Some do, some are lazy, some are addicts and some are just plain incapable of making a living in modern society, either because they are mentally ill or because they are just clueless. That still does not mean we should not provide them with a little dignity, we can easily afford it.
But we can’t ignore the fact that we have a 25% high school drop out rate in this country, high school is free (unlike some other countries), and we still have one out of every four teenagers saying nationwide, not just in some pockets of poverty, but nationwide say; naaaa I will pass. That problem won’t be solved by more money, it has to do with family and cultural values and family breakdown.
How are those kids going to compete with Indians and Chinese who are willing to work like crazy for the opportunity to go to any sort of school?
FWIW “Welfare Reform” shifted a lot of people from welfare to SS Disability. One of the reasons Social Security is now drawing on it’s so called trust fund which is actually the general budget because that’s what it got loaned to (and spent). It was largely a cost shifting measure.
The bottom line is federal spending has to be overhauled in very agency and government program.
For example, every mother I’ve known who was on the WIC program was given so much they were giving it away. A family of 4 can make $800 a week and get WIC. Ridiculous!
Across the board, can’t we agree that there are people who are looking to the government to get their freebies? The percentage? I do not know. But we have to start somewhere. And it’s not wrong to look first at who may be misusing the system and/or reforming income guidelines (like WIC).
“Across the board, can’t we agree that there are people who are looking to the government to get their freebies?”
Yes, and the place to start is where the big dollars are spent – providing bailouts to Wall Street while their CEOs get bonuses. And providing money to the big banks at zero percent interest so they can give a loan to a student at 5% or more. And no bid defense contracts to companies like Haliburton. And weapons contracts that even the military doesn’t want. And tax breaks to oil companies who will ship gasoline, refined in the US, overseas while our prices keep increasing. And………..
Meanwhile, the so-called welfare queen is nothing more than a strawwoman conceived by conservatives to divert attention from the robbery by the rich that is going on right in front of us. Welfare reform in 1996 (by a Democrat President) ended the option of lifetime dependency on welfare and the numbers have dropped dramatically. Here a recent article on the very subject:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/us/welfare-limits-left-poor-adrift-as-recession-hit.html
$800 a week comes to about $38,400 a year. That doesn’t go terribly far these days… Especially as a job at that level probably doesn’t include benefits like insurance…
And two workers, working 40 hours each, at minimum wage, don’t make $800 ….do they?
I do taxes every year for the VITA program, which is targeted at lower-income households. In my experience, one of the big factors in low income households is plain ol’ bad luck. The person who loses a job and is diagnosed with a life-threatening illness, all in the same year. The person who is injured and permanently disabled just a few years shy of retirement eligibility. These are not just stories to me, they are real live people who have become poor, and who will not be able to work their way back to financial stability.
Thanks for this post, Brian.
I think it is no accident that the party that wraps itself in religion is also the party that believes that people on welfare are mostly undeserving loafers. After all, if the world is in the hands of a just god, then it follows that only the undeserving would be poor.
And Mervel writes:
“But we can’t ignore the fact that we have a 25% high school drop out rate in this country, high school is free (unlike some other countries), and we still have one out of every four teenagers saying nationwide, not just in some pockets of poverty, but nationwide say; naaaa I will pass. That problem won’t be solved by more money, it has to do with family and cultural values and family breakdown.
How are those kids going to compete with Indians and Chinese who are willing to work like crazy for the opportunity to go to any sort of school?”
Mervel, what is your answer to the question? This sounds like the old “families have to take responsibility” line. Well what if the families don’t take responsibility? What then must we do? Too often it sounds like the Republican answer is to let the families that fail to take responsibility suffer, as if “that’ll teach ’em”. If only!
PNElba, I think the best chance to make any progress (that is assuming that anyone in Washington wants to) is to deal with it just like you would any negotiating session that hits this kind of road block.
From where I sit I have seen the Obama administration make compromise after compromise towards the conservatives and he has always been rebuffed.
The real problem for President Obama is that whatever he is for, the right is automatically against. The conservatives have been very honest with the American people. Remember Mitch McConnell: “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.” There is no room for compromise or “coming together” in that statement.
$800 a week comes to about $38,400 a year. That doesn’t go terribly far these days… Especially as a job at that level probably doesn’t include benefits like insurance…
It’s much about personal experience and perspective when it comes to our opinions. We’ve raised several children on one income and it was less than $35,000 – without health insurance. I used WIC for one child, one year, when my husband wasn’t working. They were quite surprised when I called to cancel when my husband went back to work.
Walker we have to encourage a culture that values education and hard work and we have to look at overhauling how we think about education. The German’s have a pretty good model. Also there is nothing wrong with looking at what is going on in the families, not to blame them but to encourage the formation of families that are healthy.
None of this is easy and won’t be fixed by democrats or republicans in the near term. It is beyond politics.
This issue is in need of a severe reality check.
Kathy’s old saw that liberals want to give you a fish and conservatives want to teach you to fish is as clear and stark a statement of the differences between the two sides as there is, at least from the conservative point of view; that is, just about every conservative I know would shout “huzzah!” in agreement.
The problem is that it is dramatically, utterly wrong. Almost all of the people who work with the poor and the disadvantaged – teaching them how to fish, as it were, and so much more – are liberal. The measly handful of conservatives I know who do the work are thoughtful, compassionate and dedicated, and don’t spout any of the rhetoric you read from conservatives on comment blogs like this, because they know that kind of rhetoric is ignorant nonsense.
This is not a case of a rhetorical divide for which both sides are equally to blame. This is a rhetorical divide for which conservatives are primarily to blame because their divisive, judgmental comments are entirely bereft of any reality. THAT’s the difference.
If someone reading this thinks that’s harsh, I have a few questions for you: have you lived on the south side of Chicago, much less even been there? No? I have. Have you worked on the street in the communities of New York City? No? I have. Do you work with poor people every day? No? I do. Would you even walk down a street in the inner city of, say, Cleveland? No? Too dangerous? If the answers to these questions are no, then best to hold your tongue about the poor and liberal attitudes towards the poor, because you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
One last thing: I’m going to guess some would write me off as a tree-hugging, touchy-feely type who knows nothing of the business world where the real work gets done. Oops. Boy is that wrong. Having held senior positions in large corporations and run and employed people in a variety of businesses, I know that setting equally well. I am a huge advocate for small businesses, which should have their tax rates slashed. But here’s my experience: if you want to see a disproportionate share of lazy people, you need to go not to the welfare office, but to the private sector and visit a middle-management meeting room in your average large corporation. The poor with whom I deal every day work infinitely harder, for vanishingly less.
None of this is easy and won’t be fixed by democrats or republicans in the near term. It is beyond politics.
That is why some of us look beyond the politics for another source – principles found in the Bible. That’s not to say there isn’t fanatical thinking in this camp since there is nothing 100% in this world.
Walker said, Well what if the families don’t take responsibility? What then must we do?
The liberals don’t want to police the world and they shouldn’t be policing families, either. I’m not saying turn a blind eye to serious situations. I am saying that anyone, including a government agency, that casually interferes with the family unit, should mind their own business.
I am saying that anyone, including a government agency, that casually interferes with the family unit, should mind their own business.
Kathy, does that include contraception and abortion policies? Gay marriage?
Pete, I grew up in North Jersey in the 60’s. I have worked with the homeless in NYC.
One thing that has to change are the liberal accusations of “rhetorical” statements made by conservatives. And both sides are equally to blame. I believe that most of us are honestly looking for some foundation to build on to see improvements for individuals and society.
I know people who are very black and white about their view and offer little to no compassion. I am not one of those people. If one points to the truth and it offends, so be it. It still is the truth. And I believe the truth is evident: our economy is in the red. And just like any other financial crisis situation, there must be drastic cuts where there is waste – from the very top with government and corporations down to the bottom with recipients of government assistance.
“Almost all of the people who work with the poor and the disadvantaged – teaching them how to fish, as it were, and so much more – are liberal.”
Really? My experience is not this at all. In my own family I had an great uncle who was a Josephite (a priest for those not familiar). He spent his life helping the poor on missions in the deep south. My aunt was a Dominican sister of the sick poor that lived her whole life helping the sick and poor of the inner city. They and my family were the folks that Walker describes as “wrapping themselves in religion”. None of them are close to what I would describe as liberal. In fact I am sure that most of the commenters here would despise their political leanings.
At the end of the day, engineering students, technology people, IT people, truck drivers, nurses, med tech’s etc, get jobs and are not in poverty. This other stuff does not really matter, the global economy does not care if we are liberal or conservative or if we teach someone to fish or give them a fish, the relentless beat of global competition stops for no one. We have to be the leaders in technology education for all, poor, middle and rich, there is no reason we can’t be. In addition we have to have students and families who think it is actually a good idea to learn how to do something that is difficult but worth it.
Outside of that we can and should provide a compassionate decent safety net for all Americans, food stamps, WIC, TANF, HEAP etc, are cheap compared to what we spend on other government programs. But I really like a proposal that Richard Nixon had, which was to largely get rid of all of this confusing web of government programs for the poor and just have a minimum national income.
We also don’t need to go anywhere else to find poverty, St. Lawrence county is one of the poorest counties in NYS. We have people living in horrible conditions that we don’t see because we don’t want to.
I have served numerous families “camping” in tents in the woods or in hardly habitable travel trailers with no furnace beyond some electric stove or wood stove, we have people living in homes without floors, with coon’s and rats coming and going. We don’t need to go somewhere else to find extreme multi generational poverty.
Kathy, does that include contraception and abortion policies? Gay marriage?
Note that I said “casually interferes”.
Some things should not be debatable. The first reference of marriage is found in the Old Testament around 1450 BC and it was between a man and a woman. All throughout the Bible there isn’t a record of gay marriage and God condemns it.
Homosexuality, contraception, and abortion have been around since the beginning of time. If one cares to know what God says about these things then they will ask. If one does not care, they will come to their own conclusions and make their own rules.
Anyone who has lived for 50+ years can easily see that our society has evolved to a point where anything goes. What may have been controlled or private before, is now caution thrown to the wind and called “freedom”.
If someone wants an abortion the government apparently believes it must make it safe. If someone wants to marry someone of their own sex the government apparently believes it must make it possible. Would there be less abortions and homosexuality if these laws were not in place? I think so. Because the door has been opened and abortions are readily accessible and teenagers are questioning their sexual preference. Conscience and self-government has been too oppressive. I am not sure giving someone what they want always has good results in the long run. Time will tell.
“The strength of a nation derives from the integrity of the home.”
-Confucius
So, to answer your question – no. The government shouldn’t be involved in any of the above. We’ve lived as a nation for 200+ years without making these things legal. Was society worse off?
Kathy certainly I look at principles found in scripture also for guidance. These problems we have are in many ways cultural and societal, I think the Church has a huge role to play first just for diversity and second as a true witness to a different way of life. I don’t see us really grabbing on to that role though. It seems to me that by getting overly involved in politics we don’t help we just become another player with the same problems as all of the others.
If the Church had the resources I would be in favor of it providing the safety net, but that will never happen its not even close to a possibility. Just looking at SLC, how much money do the Churches have to help the poor? Some sure and we could do better; but even maxed out, probably about 2-5% of what is actually needed.
I do agree with Kathy in that the government should not mandate morality. But I also think the government should not promote and reward irresponsible and non-productive behavior. Tell me what is wrong with, mandated drug testing for welfare recipients? I know this would be controversial but also why not force birth control on wards of the state, or atleast make it available to them at no cost. What responsible person would bring a child into this world that can’t support themselves? Here we are back at being responsible. So although I am sure many people would disagree I think the government should stop rewarding this type of behavior. Let alone give you financial incentives to do it.