How can we keep more young people in the North Country?
Keeping young people like Tim Morse in the North Country could be the region's biggest challenge over the next thirty years (Photo provided)
Yesterday NCPR began its series on young people in the North Country by talking with Becca Johnson, a St. Lawrence County native who has made her life in the orbit of New York City.
And here on the In Box, we talked about what you’re seeing in your corner of our region: Is the flight of young people hollowing out your community? Are you holding your own? Seeing a little renaissance?
Today, we talk with Tim Morse, a 26-year-old who grew up in Copenhagen, near Watertown, who has chosen to come home to the North Country to make a life and a career here.
Tim points to the outdoor life and the closeness of family, along with the availability of a good job, as strong draws bringing him back.
So here’s my question for In Boxers today: What do you think can be done in your community to make it more inviting for people like Tim to stay, or return after a time out in the wider world?
Can or should local governments do more to foster a youth culture?
Particularly in communities that have some resources that attract young people (colleges, the Fort Drum Army base, hiking and camping destinations) are we doing enough to welcome young people and to encourage them to consider our region as more than just a stopover point?
And I’d also love to hear from young people, both those reading the In Box outside the region, and those who are making a living here: What would make your life better, more inviting, more secure?
Is it as nuts-and-bolts as good jobs and affordable housing? Or are you more interested in the fun, inviting stuff, like a better nightlife, more places to hang out and meet friends?
If you’re still skeptical that this is a meaningful issue, take a few minutes to play with these projection charts put together by Cornell University. You can actually see a graphic representation of the aging North Country population.
Comments, as always, welcome.
Tags: demographics, economy, vanishing youth, youth
Pete, Welcome you are.
I’m pretty much in John Warren’s camp. Adirondack history is rife with population centers that came and went: Brandon, Goldsmith, Derrick, McColloms, Tahawas. There are many more that have shrunk dramatically over the years: Franklin Falls, Merrillsville, Coreys and Axton. This is just in the region I’m familiar with; I’m sure there are many more; almost all due to the decline in the lumber industry. Bloomingdale used to be bigger than Saranac Lake. And Saranac Lake’s population has shrunk forty percent from its high in the 1940s. Why? TB was cured by drug therapies.
Stuff happens. Efforts can be made to offset effect of outside forces, but it’s not necessarily the end of the world if they don’t work. And what would a “solution” look like. Does anyone think we could become Aspen? Is that what we want for the Adirondacks?
That said, there are a lot of things going on in and around Saranac Lake that have to be helping keep younger residents involved in the area, things like the Saranac Lake Young Arts Association, that conceivably could be done elsewhere in the Adirondacks, though how well they would flourish in areas of lower population density than the tri-lakes is hard to figure. But to work, they require the leadership of gifted volunteers, and those folks don’t grow on trees.
Walker, I hear where you are coming from but industry now does not have to be based on the raw materials in a particular local (iron ore or lumber for your examples). It can be based on other things. Look at Redmond Washington. Microsoft did not have to go there. But it did. Don’t get me wrong I don’t see that happening in the Adirondacks, but is not entirely out of the question. There it had a lot to do with quality of life, same holds for some places in the Adirondacks. The other thing (although this is the Aspen example you won’t like) the area has going for it is its other “raw materials” – lakes and mountains. But we have chosen to protect rather than develop many of those areas in a responsible way like we see in some places out west. They work with what they have. It isn’t perfect but it is what it is.
There have been great discussions over the last few days about this topic and as an out-of-stater who is “young” (33) but has Adirondack leanings (just look at my user name!), I thought I would add my two cents about what would attract me to moving back.
I grew up outside of Albany and even though part of my family hailed from the Adirondacks I was always bored on family vacations to the Adirondacks because who wanted to swim in a cold lake when there were so many cartoons I was missing?! My family never did the neon of Lake George so it was all about Long Lake with nature as the unexciting play toy (at the time).
As I got older and moved downstate to NYC, I came to see what my family saw in the ADKs and I tried to get up there as much as I could on trips home to Albany. In other words, I had no interest, I went away and my interest grew based on my past but also wants and interests in life.
However, there just aren’t many jobs up there and the infrastructure isn’t there yet either. The jobs I have held recently could easily be done remotely but high speed internet and cell phone coverage are still issues in the park. I have heard good things about young people coming into Keene and Saranac Lake and would love to live there but what about good ol Long Lake or other towns throughout the park? There seems to be a piecemeal approach to migration and infrastructure and its just not there yet for me to even consider moving.
People bring up Colorado, Jackson Hole and other areas where there are a lot of young people living in an outdoor environment. There just isn’t that critical mass yet for the entire Park but perhaps if you build the infrastructure, and affordable housing (especially apartments) I think young people with outdoor inclinations and have an ability to telecommute might help counteract a definitely graying area.
ADKinLA,
I agree. I have a summer home there and could spend more time but I have to stand outside on a rock on one leg with my arm in the air to check my email and I am only a few miles up the lake from the largest town in the Adirondacks. But I also think the problems are bigger than that.
SirLeland, I think you and I agree. The opportunities are there. If parents don’t help point there kids in the right directions (like you) than we have a different problem. I admit that sometimes I take my kids somewhat against their will hiking etc. but they appreciate it eventually. Today as a parent we compete against many distractions. But the opportunities in the NC for fun things to do (especially outside) are abundant. I wish we had a cross country ski and alpine ski team like they have in the NC town I grew up in where I am now.
So I’ve been thinking about these questions since I moved to Potsdam four years ago. I fit into Brian’s definition of “young” and spend a great deal of time socializing with people that also fit into that category. I’m an in-migrant who came for a job that is highly specialized, pays well, but requires a large amount of education and training not available in the region. If my perceptions are correct, (and I’ll analyze the Census data when I have a chance) a significant portion of the young adults you’ll find in Canton/Potsdam and Lake Placid/Saranac Lake. In fact, there are a fair number of us. But why might we be found in those two areas? Canton/Potsdam is easy, it’s rare that a college town with a hospital isn’t thriving even in an economic downturn, they are good places to be an entrepreneur, and they have a nightlife. Lake Placid/Saranac Lake, there seems to be the right combination of jobs as well as natural and social amenities. And again, a nightlife.
What could a place like Hamilton County do to attract my cohort to live there or at least visit more often and spend our money? Probably, not a whole lot. I don’t know that it offers the right combination of things were looking for. Could it be changed? Maybe.
The American migration from predominately rural living to urban living began well over 100 years ago and was driven primarily by the change from an agricultural to an industrial economy. Now, as we evolve into a post-industrial economy that increasingly utilizes a “virtual” workplace, there may be something of a return to rural living. We can keep young people in the North Country and even attract people from nearby urban centers with prohibitively expensive living costs if we invest in technological infrastructure and the education necessary to exploit it.
St. Lawrence County unemployment rate improves slightly to 11%, but still at same level as one year ago
Story from NorthCountryNow.com, Apr 24, 5:25 pm
Improves…. We have to ask why young people are not moving here or staying here?
This is horrible and yet we are so used to it we act as if it is normal, we live in a poverty filled area and we like to pretend like the poverty is happening to someone else instead of our neighbor.
Paul, when Microsoft settled in Redmond Washington it had a population of 23,000. It’s also sixteen miles from Seattle, a city of half a million, in a metro area several times that size.
That’s not to say that a smaller tech company couldn’t choose to locate in Long Lake, but I think it’s no surprise that the only existing examples (that I’m aware of) are in the Tri-Lakes area, where at least there are a few supermarkets. Are there high tech companies locating on the edges of the park? If I were a CEO of a small high tech company, I could imagine locating in Saranac Lake or Elizabethtown or near Potsdam or Malone (especially Malone, which has really cheap real estate). But what would make you pick Long Lake or Blue Mountain Lake, even if there was great Internet service there? I just don’t see it.
Great series Brian.
Important point for us all to keep in mind is that our future is not just about the retention of our young people. Perhaps more important is the attraction of other young people, folks raised elsewhere who as seeking to locate in Adirondack North Country communities with a great quality-of-life. These are people who may be able to start a small enterprise or become involved in one, people who will be having kids up here and will be the core support for community institutions. To attract them – – Broadband is a must along with a variety of art venues and active recreation. We need to focus our tourism promotions more creatively toward younger visitors who we would like to (eventually) have settle up here. And, we need to be mindful of the need for quality, energy efficient housing at the reasonable prices that younger individuals and couples can afford. The broader world beckons to young people raised here and that is very healthy. Experiences away will make them smarter. Perhaps some will return but one thing is for sure – – if we all do our work right, we can attract others who find new opportunities here compelling.
One of the biggest dangers to retaining families and encouraging growth in the North Country is the inequitable funding formula for NYS schools. My husband and I are locals and have been committed to staying in St. Lawrence County in order to give our children as much time with their grandparents as possible and because my husband is involved in a long term love-affair with the Adirondacks. We have been content to live in an area that is cash poor but that offers us many kinds of wealth that would not be available somewhere else.
But we are very worried for our kids. It has become clear that our school district will either have to disband or merge within the next two years due to the increased cost of mandates and increasing employee costs inherent in education paired with Cuomo’s property tax cap. Our daughter will be able to finish her senior year without too much more disruption to her educational plans but we had to work and pray pretty hard to keep the programs that she wants and needs in place in our district. Our 7 year old son will not be so lucky and I am not looking forward to the day when I have to put him on the bus to be shipped far away from home for his education.
Many of our friends with young families have said that they will be leaving the area soon because of rapidly decreasing educational opportunities in their districts. Local teachers have been sending out resumes because they know that their jobs are about to be cut. Local High School students are about to be bored out of their skulls as they sit for half of their school day in study halls because their school districts (or their regional HS) cannot afford teachers for arts classes, sports, AP classes or other enrichment courses. They are going to graduate to the welfare line because no colleges will admit them with their scanty preparation.
The drug problem? It is going to get worse. The welfare rolls? They are going to get bigger. The health care crisis? It will get worse as local students will not be prepared for nursing or medical school and non-locals will have no interest in living here. Our family has lost no less than 4 pediatricians in 17 years due to poor educational opportunities and services in St. Lawrence and Franklin counties. Our congregation has lost 3/4 of our children due to families that moved away because of poor opportunities for their kids.
The one thing that the North Country had going for it in past years is that it was a good place to raise children because we had good local school districts, low crime and a family friendly community atmosphere. That asset is rapidly disappearing here and when it is gone, I fear that the whole region will be composed solely of the very wealthy in their part time ADK homes and the elderly, indigent and dependent. I really hope I am wrong.
“Are there high tech companies locating on the edges of the park?”
Global Foundries is pretty close to the “edge”:
http://www.globalfoundries.com/malta/
Finding enough qualified people to work there is a problem.
A good example of the kind of business that can work in the park is NUMED in Hopkinton NY. Founded by Alan Tower from Dickinson(went to school in St. Regis Falls) Alan went to NJ invented a heart cathator, sold the patent with a no compete clause. Then came back to Hopkinton, bought the old school and started his own business, once the no compete time had expired. It has employeed numerous locals some highly skilled others with only high school diplomas. Alan could have created this world class business anywhere he chose. He chose most northern NYS. Why not interview him and find out why?
The “Back to the land” movement will never happen againin the Adirondacks because in the 60’s and 70’s you could still find cheap land in the Adirondacks, whereas now that is all but impossible. There never was much real “back to the land” farming in the Adriondacks but in the 60’s people who wanted to move here could buy or start a tourism/hospitality business and the costs of operation were reasonable, and there was a lot of tourism to support it. Now, in many places (such as Hamilton County where I am from) many of the hotels and cabins that tourists would stay in are gone, bought up as private family second home compounds. The land is so valuable leading toreal esatate prices so high that no one could ever pay the mortgage from running theplace as a business.
I have seen many tourism/hospitality businesses disappear since the 60’s. There may be more winter visitors in some places due to the growth of snowmobiling, but in general there just are not as many real tourists. It is a viscious circle. Fewer places to stay, fewer tourists. Fewer tourists, fewer tourism businesses. People looking only for outdoor recreation experience still come, but they may be hikers and campers who generally don’t spend a lot of money.
Outside of a few places like Lake Placid and Old Forge there are not that many “tourist attractions” that the modern urban/suburban family finds interesting. Mom who probably works as well as taking care of the house doesn’t want to stay in a “housekeeping cabin” anymore. Most kids of the Internet generation are bored with just swimming, hiking, and hanging around outside – they want their im/facebook/xbox and can’t be disconnected front their friends for more than 30 minutes, etc. – and so on.
As far as jobs, most tourism/hospitality jobs are not very well paying. Unless you really have a love of the Adirondacks you are not going to stay or come here and take such a job if you can find one. Unfortunately most of the better paying jobs with benefits are public sector jobs working for the state, county, or town. There are only so many of them to go around and the county and town jobs depend somewhat on how many taxpayers there are to pay the salaries.
There are many people who would rather live in the Adirondacks and would jump at the chance if they could afford it. Thes may include ambitious local kids who have moved away out of necessity. The trick is to find a way to create jobs and opportunities for these people.
Despite the general trend of people wanting the amenities and entertainment urban areas offer, there are many who want to get out but are only willing to give up so much. They can live without many of the “conveniences” but are not willing to sacrifice economic security.
As far as the discussion on youth and drugs and “positive activities” – I think boredom is a problem because while there are some positive activities thre are not as many or as much variety. If you don’t happen to be interested in what is offered in your small Adirondack town, you may be out of luck, whereas in urban areas, just about anything (positive or just entertaining) is available. There are so many opportunities for outdoore recreation but not everyone is in to hiking, fishing, hunting, or can afford to go boating, downhill skiing, snowmobiling, etc. Remember also that there is a transportation problem especially for kids. In the city there is public transportation, in many areas you can at least walk to your friends’ houses or thee mall, etc. In the Adirondacks it may be several miles and if mom’s taxi is not available you are stuck at home. Also it is the perception of kids that it is boring here becaue they see lifestyles of the rich and famous on TV and think they are missing something. Bored = increased chances of drug use and other bad activites.
My family moved to the Adirondacks from Long Island in 1971, after vacationing there for several years. I went from 8th grade class of over 500 to a 9th grade class of 10. I thought it was great. But I knew many kids who couldn’t wait to move away. I thought they were crazy because they just didn’t know how good they had it. I don’t think a lot of them were wanting to leave because of some specific career plans, they just wanted to get out. I do not think the adults do a good enough job of giving the rural kids a true picture of the real world away from their rural home town.
When I was a kid in the Adirondacks, we didn’t have the Internet, satellite TV, cell phones, VCRs, DVDs, or a lot of the other technologies we have now. If you were lucky you received one or 2 TV channels and a few radio stations. You probably had to travel 50 miles or more to go see a movie or buy the latest record by your favorite group, etc. All that has changed. Many of the factors leading to boredom and a feeling of isolation have changed.
Nearly eveyone wants to have a decent income whether they want a “career” or not. The biggest thing that will help stem the tide of declining population and more importantly loss of young people would be the availablity of decent jobs.
I agree with those who have commented about how a change in attitude is needed. I am a young (early 30s) professional who relocated to Clinton County, following my husband’s job.
The first question we often receive from the same folks who lament “the lack of young people in the region” is “WHY did you move here?!?!”
Not a great sales pitch….
; )
On the other hand, I would argue that the low cost of living, high quality of life, multitude of outdoors opportunities make the Adirondack region a wonderful place to live. THOSE are the messages we need to be promoting….
YP, I don’t think the cost of living is low. It isn’t low for any parts of rural NYS. For example when I moved from Denver (an relatively expensive neighborhood for Denver right in the city) to the town I am in now. The value of the home I bought here was a little less than what I left and my taxes went up 5 fold. And there I got actual services here I pay extra for everything else (water is extra, garbage is extra….). Not complaining I wanted to move but I didn’t do it to save money in that regard.
“I don’t think the cost of living is low.”
Paul, I don’t think most people are moving here from Denver; they’re mostly moving here from the mid-Atlantic and northeast. And compared to those areas, housing is decidedly cheap, as long as you don’t demand lake-front or mountain views. And some places, like Malone, have very cheap real estate.
If you look at rents for decent places that a young professional would want to live, they are not that cheap and decent rentals are really hard to find. Are they less than NYC or D.C or Boston? They certainly are but I would say that our greatly reduced salary structure does not make up for that lower rent.
One interesting question is what will it take to change the Cornell projections for the Adirondacks and northern New York? A cursory read is that CU makes projections based on sustaining current trends.
What if these trends are not sustainable? Might different drivers produce different results?
The UN projects that world population will grow to over 11 billion by 2050, up from roughly 6 billion today.
Will another 5 billion in the world really result in a net population loss in the Adirondacks and northern NY?
The United States is already one of the world’s most populous nations, joining China and India as the only nations topping 300 million people. The US is the 4th fastest growing country on earth.
The US population is projected to grow from 300 million to 500 million by mid-century.
Will another 200 million in the US result in a net population loss in the Adirondacks and northern NY?
The American southwest is the fastest growing part of the US, growing from less than 400,000 in 1900 to over 60 million today.
Water limits will acutely stress the southwest US between now and 2050. The southwest has already been hit by a prolonged drought. Global warming will likely increase the frequency and severity of droughts between now and 2050. All they’ve done to alleviate water pressures so far is figure out more ways to tap the Colorado River.
When one looks at long-term trends for temperature, rain fall, water usage/replenishment, and energy costs for cooling I don’t see how the American southwest remains pleasantly livable or economically viable. (I don’t see how Atlanta remains pleasantly livable either for that matter.)
Will the ecologic and economic ruin of the fastest growing part of the US — the American southwest — result in a net population loss in the Adirondacks and northern NY?
I see world/US population growth (and the inability of our current political system to deal with this issue) and the demise of the American southwest in the era of climate change (and the inability of our current political system to deal with this issue) as factors that lead to a population revival in upstate NY. We have water — lots of water. Our energy costs will be lower comparatively because the edge is falling off our winters and our summers shouldn’t get much warmer. We’ll need less really expensive energy. I’ll take a June evening in Binghamton or Auburn or Indian Lake any day over one in Phoenix.
I think that the long-term world/US population explosion and climate change driven population growth scenario for upstate NY is possible. But I also think that it does not fit with the dominant narrative of the Park’s political leaders who remain hostile to environmental protections.
But it’s worth investigating, just as is the issue of population loss.
One last point is that when you look at population trends in rural America we too here in the Park are experiencing similar downward trends, like much of upstate NY and the rural northeast. Yet, unlike most of these other areas we haven’t destroyed our environment while we’ve lost population. This means we have something truly special for people to return to and something truly special to use to try and buck state and national trends.
Water is an excellent point.
I mean I grew up in the upper midwest and have spent time in the Southwest, you have some points, we can live without oil, we can live without any number of resources, all except water, I think three days.
“Yet, unlike most of these other areas we haven’t destroyed our environment while we’ve lost population.”
First of all we have not lost population. If you follow these stories in a few isolated areas this is true. But the trend appears to be an “aging” population.
Second I have been reading that Lake George and other water bodies are being slowly destroyed.
Finally, what do you mean by this comment?
“But I also think that it does not fit with the dominant narrative of the Park’s political leaders who remain hostile to environmental protections. ”
This isn’t accurate.
“we haven’t destroyed our environment while we’ve lost population” That’s a good thing, but “we” have locked up so much of the land as forever wild state forest and put development restrictions on much of the rest that land in the Adirondacks is relatively expensive compared to open land in many other areas. If the population keeps growing I think most of the people will be looking somewher else simply because they can’t afford it here, especially if there are not good jobs.
This has been a lively discussion, and in re-reading, I am made to remember that I once moved away from my family. I left Ohio and the landscape that was familiar, the school, the college, the city, and most of all the family, to come here. I left that place because I had a vision of how the world should be, and I could see that it could never happen there.
What I left behind was racism, bigotry, and an outdated stubbornness that resisted the changes of the fifties and sixties. I moved 500 miles to get away from those folks, and in doing so, moved into a new century.
Now, years later, when we visit, we have a great time, we catch up, share pictures and stories, and eat. family is family. You can’t choose them, and you can’t get rid of them. On the ride home we laugh and re-tell all that we’ve heard…it’s like visiting Afganistan…
Pete says: “we” have locked up so much of the land as forever wild state forest and put development restrictions on much of the rest that land in the Adirondacks is relatively expensive compared to open land in many other areas.
Really? What substantiates this claim?
The high cost of living and doing business relative to earnings potential are key issues with regard to the north country. Obviously, there are some areas in the north country (such as the major resort towns) where the cost of living is higher than in others, though those areas tend offer more economic opportunity than the lower cost areas.
One question that should be asked is if there are state and local government policies that unnecessarily raise the cost of living and if so why not change those policies?
“What substantiates this claim?”
50% of the acreage in the Adirondack Park is either state land or water. No building on state land or water. 51% of private land is classified as “resource management” where residental development is not expressly prohibited BUT “most development activities in resource management areas will require an agency permit.” The APA has not been known for being very cooperative. (sources: http://apa.gov/gis/stats/colc1108.htm and http://apa.gov/property_owners/LandUse.html).
So you immediately take 50% of the land of the market, and on another 25% you’ll have to jump through some hoops with a state agency before you can do anything. Most of this “resource management” land is not practical for housing development anyway since there is no infrastructure such as year-round roads or utilities.
Many towns now have zoning that in some places may require a fairly large minimum building size and/or fairly large lot size (as in 5 acres). I guess this is to prevent people from throwing up ramshackle “camps”? This does not prohibit development but makes it expensive, aside from the general fairly high cost of land in any really desirable location.
There is land in less desirable locations. But, a lot of the private land where development might be permitted is not on a road or even if it is on a state highway, there are no utilities such as power and telephone.
No doubt there may be run-down properties in some towns and villages or hamlets that could be obtained cheap, but overall, land in the Adirondacks is not cheap.
Some people with enough money and possibly a source of income that does not depend on where they live will flee the cities to the Adirondacks. I suspect for many of them the source of income is retirement. Thus the continued graying of the population. I think most will go somewhere else, probably somewhere warmer with shorter or no winters.
Pete 1:24 pm. Obviously your not living in the Adirondacks post 1/20/12. The APA has, with the approval of the ACR development in Tupper Lake, opened up the “resource management” land to resort home development, even though the land has no infrastructure such as utilities and year round roads. I guess that’s why out of all these comments no one from Tupper Lake has chimed in to commiserate with the dire circumstances the rest of the NC finds itself in. Ask any of the ACR supporters, the developers are going to be providing several hundred jobs very soon. Our tax base is going to be increase some 600 MILLION DOLLARS, the county,town and school districts will be swimming in Money(Just disregard the PILOT program that diverts most of the tax money to pay off the developers infrastructure bonds). Our children will no longer have to leave the area to find service jobs paying great wages. Our property and school taxes are going to drop by 30-40%. We are going to have so many new businesses opening up we will have trouble finding a place to park. I guess Tupper Lake has to get the message out to the rest of the NC, fear not, the ACR is here to rescue all of us. Some people wonder about the developers past and present financial difficulties: Failed Savings and Loan, Non payment of Property and School taxes, half Million dollar federal tax liens(current), Utilities being cut off for non payment. Whats that old expression, oh yeah, Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Pete, the trouble with the “The Problem Is The Park” theory is that communities in the park are generally in better shape than the more rural communities outside the park.
You write “There is land in less desirable locations.” If we’re really talking about affordable housing then we’re necessarily not talking about the most desirable locations. The problem with low cost housing is that that’s not what builders want to build, because that’s not where the money is.
And yes, there certainly is “run-down properties in some towns and villages or hamlets that could be obtained cheap,” and folks who are looking to get a toe-hold here can do what so many others have done before them and buy a run-down house and fix it up over time.
“Some people with enough money and possibly a source of income that does not depend on where they live will flee the cities to the Adirondacks.” Yes, and those people will need to buy stuff, and hire people for this and that, and basically fuel an economy that will support others.
“I think most will go somewhere else, probably somewhere warmer with shorter or no winters.” Well I didn’t, and I know a bunch of others who didn’t. I also know a bunch of retirees who live here part of the year. And they all spend money here. If the graying of the population that comes from retirees moving in was a big problem, Florida would have gone broke long ago.
We may be entering a time of a more economic / park resident friendly APA. I don’t know.
As far as the ACR development in Tupper Lake, most if not all of those properties will not fit the defininion of “affordable housing.” That is, if the project really ever gets built.
Developers will build affordable housing if there is a demand for it and if they can make a decent profit. In some cases this might mean they get some kind of government subsidy or tax break. Most likely they would only have a chance of that if there was an obvious need, it’s not going to get built to attract young people.
The difference between the graying of the population in Florida and the Adirondacks is that the overall population is much larger and therefore there are enough working/younger people to provide needed services, etc. Also enough that there are activities and attractions for young people so they don’t want to leave. Plus even though the Florida economy gets a lot of income from tourism, there are multitudes of non-tourism related businesses some of which pay high salaries and good benefits.
Pete, I understand your 12:49 comment that because of land use restrictions “much of the rest that land in the Adirondacks is relatively expensive compared to open land in many other areas”. That is, the restrictions make land more expensive.
To substantiate that claim we need more than a listing of different restrictions. For example, we need to show that land just outside the Blue Line costs less then land just inside. Where land is now expensive we need to demonstrate that the expense is at least in part a reflection of land use controls.
This is not easy, but such a study can be done. Without it your claim is just a supposition, a supposition I don’t think is true.
It’s interesting that you hold Adirondack land use restrictions responsible for an increase in land value. When the legislature enacted the APA private land use law many protested that it would cause property values to decrease.
One (or was it two?) careful studies showed this not to be the case.
“One question that should be asked is if there are state and local government policies that unnecessarily raise the cost of living and if so why not change those policies?”
Talk to the APA about that.
…and the environmental groups.
“You may be absolutely correct about the reasons for the decline of young people in the North Country.
Smaller families, the lack of Hispanic immigration,”
the famous “import-a-child” program , Brian?
it may be something, but a “reason”? you say that like it’s a flaw.
The answer is jobs. But the jobs are in the cities. We want our kids to grow up to be independent (and independent financially). That means they move to the cities.
Maybe we can get them to come back when they have skills and broadband. But probably not.
“we need to show that land just outside the Blue Line costs less then land just inside”
Actually it might be just the opposite in some cases, because land just outside does not have the restrictions and therefore could be more valuable for building.
As they stay, it all depends on location, location, location.
If I was going to build a house and had a choice of 2 similar properties essentially next to each other, one inside and one outside the blue line, I’d probably pick the one outside the park, all other things being equal.
I would probably pick the one inside. The park acts as a giant homeowners association, the restrictions etc provide a degree of protection against things like your neighbors making their backyard into a toxic waste dump or starting an auto-body shop in their barn, or deciding they want to subdivide their property into a trailer park.
Its one of the reasons property is more valuable inside the park compered to outside of the park.