Homosexuality, hatred
For a long time, opponents of same-sex marriage — and gay rights in general — have managed to put a friendly face on their efforts.
With the exception of a few zany whackos, like the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas, the message has been “hate the sin, love the sinner.”
The public image has been one of healing, of redemption, and of dialogue. And for many conservative Christians, that’s an accurate and fair portrait.
A lot of people who struggle with the idea of gay marriage aren’t bigots. They’re grappling reasonably and earnestly with a major societal shift.
But privately, away from the mainstream conversation, the tone of the anti-homosexual movement has been far more toxic, often straying from the territory of legitimate culture war difference into the realm of pure bigotry.
That darker vein been exposed recently, due to an effort by gay and progressive advocates to “out” conservative religious leaders who advocate violence, hatred and repression of gays and lesbians in their communities.
The latest painful episode is a recording made of a sermon at the Independent Baptist Church in Oakland, Maryland, where Pastor Dennis Leatherman acknowledged to his congregation a desire to eradicate gays.
“First of all, there is a danger of reacting in the flesh, of responding not in a scriptural, spiritual way, but in a fleshly way,” Leatherman preached.
“Kill them all. Right? I will be very honest with you. My flesh kind of likes that idea, but it grieves the Holy Spirit. It violates Scripture. It is wrong.”
This follows on the release of audio of a sermon delivered by Curtis Knapp, pastor of the New Hope Baptist Church in Seneca, Kansas, who goes a step further, defending the idea of killing gays.
“They should be put to death — that’s what happened in Israel. That’s why homosexuality wouldn’t have grown in Israel. It tends to limit conversions. It tends to limit people coming out of the closet,” Knapp argued.
He goes on to insist that scripture actually supports the idea of government-backed extermination of gays and lesbians.
“Oh, so you’re saying we should go out and start killing them? No, I’m saying the government should. They won’t, but they should.”
These aren’t isolated incidents, nor are they limited to tiny, fringe churches. North Carolina pastor Charles L. Worley of the Providence Road Baptist Church, responding to President Barack Obama’s support of gay marriage, offered his view last month that gays should be quarantined in special ghettos.
“I figured out a way to get rid of all the lesbians and queers but I couldn’t get it passed the Congress. Build a great, big, large fence — 150 or 100 mile long — put all the lesbians in there,” Worley suggests. “Fly over and drop some food. Do the same thing for the queers and the homosexuals and have that fence electrified so they can’t get out…and you know what, in a few years, they’ll die out. Do you know why? They can’t reproduce!”
His congregation responds with a hearty Amen, particularly when Pastor Worley describes Mr. Obama as “a babykiller and a homosexual lover.”
This is ugly stuff. And it’s healthy that the scab is being pulled off so that conservative and traditionalist Americans, in particular, can grapple with the vein of hatred, fear and ignorance that shapes this debate.
Perhaps the most disturbing image in this new series of “outings” is video of a little boy in the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle Church in Indiana. In a sweet, innocent voice, he sings “ain’t no homos gonna make it to heaven.”
The congregation stands, applauds and cheers wildly. It’s fair to debate what this kind of thing represents, but it sure isn’t Christian love.
Peter,
I doubt there’s anything useful to be learned about sex from the Catholic Church, including any “rationalization” of birth control methods. They have a really bad record in the “rationalization” business.
Golly, it amazes me how many people have “chosen” to follow a lifestyle that has made them social pariahs through the years. Makes perfect sense to me.
I would say that the science strongly indicates that homosexuality is an inborn trait.
Can someone give a direct quote from the Bible condemning homosexuality? Gotta be from the NT; that supercedes and replaces the old “covenant”. Not sure I’d accept Paul, either. If he had his way, women would still be chattel.
Dan3583: “Can someone give a direct quote from the Bible condemning homosexuality?”
Yes. There’s a passage in Romans which was quoted in a previous thread on this subject, and there is a major illustration of the destruction of a city in the old testament, and one of the sins directly called out is homosexuality.
“I would say that the science strongly indicates….”
One has to have faith to believe the Bible. One also has to have faith to believe an unproven scientific theory. It’s just where you choose to put your faith, I guess.
The Bible strongly indicates that eternal life only comes through faith in Jesus Christ. It cannot be proven. You have to believe it.
If the ‘eternal life’ for which you claim to know the membership policy, JDM, involves sitting around and arguing about this forever and ever, I suspect you may be talking about Hell.
Here’s my offer: since you discount first-hand gay reports that orientation is primarily inherent, and you demand scientific proof…
…how about you stop telling us definitive facts about Heaven, God, God’s plan for my bedroom, and anything else supernatural — unless you can come up with scientific proof yourself?
Just a fabulous thought for this lovely weekend.
Dan I can give you passages certainly about adultery and fornication from the New Testament and of course there are passages that do speak of homosexual sex.
But that is not what this is about at all, it is not about traditional Christian theology.
I think if we make it about Christian theology we will miss the real problems and get totally sidetracked.
Big discussion! Here’s my tune to bring levity to a topic which sees little in the way of smiles. I’ll be recording it soon.
American Bigot Haters Committee Theme
Well, I hate those bigots
I hate them all, The rotten son of a guns
Yes I hate every bigot
I don’t have to consider them each and every one
Cause they look the same to me
And they smell the same to me
And as far as I can see they sound the same
Yes I hate all the bigots
And I think of them first when I start assigning blame
Well, I hate those bigots
I hate them all, The rotten son of a guns
Yes I hate every bigot
I don’t have to consider them each and every one
And they make me so annoyed
Don’t you call me paranoid!
Can’t you see the problem’s not within myself?!
That’s why I hate all the bigots
It’s a matter of pride it’s not my mental health
Well, I hate those bigots
I hate them all, The rotten son of a guns
Yes I hate every bigot
I don’t have to consider them each and every one
Cause they look the same to me
And they smell the same to me
And as far as I can see they sound the same
Yes I hate all the bigots
And I think of them first when I start assigning blame
Yes I hate all the bigots
And I think of them first when I start assigning blame
If one has a Christian world view, they are going to see homosexuality as sin. But so is pride, gossip, stubbornness, gluttony, and lying – all treated as lesser sins. Sexual sins are made to be more serious.
I believe that sin is sin. Each may carry a different result but I don’t like hearing churches preach against homosexuality and never mention pride – which God despises – and carries with it a serious consequence (so much so that God says he resists the prideful)
I understand people who react to the Christian’s negative response to homosexuality. Far too many of us have taken on an air of religion, guilty of the same attitude as the Pharisees.
KHL, you are right. I know of a group of young men and women involved with a church who are far more compassionate toward homosexuality and are not shocked with it, as if it were a far greater sin than pride. lying, or gossip – listed in the “seven abominations” in the Bible.
Kathy have you ever been around shockingly hateful people? I have it makes me feel kind of sick, as Christians we have to be very strong that what these guys are saying on these video’s is part of what it means to be anti-Christ.
We need to separate out the very real and strong bigotry against gay people from Christian belief and norms.
Mervel, yes.
And I think if we state what the Bible says is sin, it’s between the individual and God. However, it shouldn’t be done in an accusatory manner. He draws people lovingly and Christians should do the same – nothing else.
Can I say this? God love homosexuals. I’m sorry for this video and the people who speak so hatefully. We’re not all like this. Honest.
Great conversation, guys. Some good stuff here. Thanks for tackling such a tough topic thoughtfully.
–Brian, NCPR
Did any of the religiously convinced following this blog happen to listen to this mornings “To The Best of our Knowledge” broadcast this morning? If perchance you are of an inquiring persuasion you might give it a go at: http://ttbook.org/book/nothing-something
Yes I heard that it was fascinating!
It makes sense to me that there is something in nothing! I don’t of course come to this guys conclusions and I found it rather unscientific to have a forward in the book by Dawkins, but it is still very interesting.
Ah, you find Dawkins unscientific! Interesting!
He is not a physicist.
I realize he is a scientist, but this book has nothing to do with his field. In popular culture he is best known for being part of the new evangelical atheist movement which is why he was invited to write the forward to the book. Which is all fine and good, but you know when you use him in your physics book you have become an advocate trying to make a point, versus a scientist.
Well, he’s still a very bright guy, and smarter than the average bear.
You might be interested in this piece in the Atlantic
I am not saying he is not a bright guy, not at all.
My only point was I kind of wish the author had not used him for any part of this particular book, the book itself sounds really interesting, did you catch the piece this morning?