Adirondack train boosters face growing questions
A couple of years ago, it seemed like the Adirondack Scenic Railroad would chug along forever, with hobbyists and boosters working slowly and steadily to expand the line that now operates between Lake Placid and Saranac Lake.
But then a group called ARTA – the Adirondack Recreational Trail Advocates — jumped in and changed the narrative. In short order, they signed up thousands of people who say the corridor from Remsen to Lake Placid should be remade as a multi-use trail.
They cobbled together a unique coalition of greenies, snowmobilers, bicycle enthusiasts and anti-pork advocates (who think government subsidies for the train are a waste) and started making noise.
The response from train advocates and some state officials was blunt: This has already been decided. It’s a railroad line and will always be a railroad line. End of conversation.
That view was echoed recently by the North Country Regional Economic Development Council, which concluded in its latest report that funding for rail infrastructure — including the Adirondack tourist train — is a priority.
But it’s clear that ARTA struck a nerve. In recent months, town governments along the corridor — most recently Tupper Lake last night — have passed resolutions urging New York to reopen the unit management plan that governs use of the track.
Saranac Lake, Lake Placid, Tupper Lake and North Elba have all endorsed a fresh look at the future of the corridor. Some local officials have gone further, deriding the track as a boondoggle and calling for it to be torn up.
Tupper Lake has been the focal point of resistance to that notion, with the “Next Stop Tupper Lake” group — including some town board members — fighting passionately to keep the train, well, on track.
So last night’s 3-to-2 vote was a stunner. Town supervisor Roger Amell, in an interview with NCPR, said that he personally prefers that the track be removed in the Tri-Lakes region.
“To keep the snowmobilers, that’s a key thing for Tupper Lake,” he said. “Unless you have plenty of snow, you can’t use the tracks. You have to have at least 18 inches of snow for the tracks [to be covered].”
Train boosters are working to recapture momentum. They plan to hold a trip for local media and officials later this month to highlight the corridor’s value as a tourist line, calling it “a celebration of the rails.”
That’s good outreach, but my sense is that the time has come when railroad boosters will have to engage the debate more broadly, making a better argument for how the train can become a real and sustainable tourism asset.
Big enough, that is, to offset the downsides of a corridor that goes unused most of the year over most of its length.
When it was just ARTA calling for a new direction for the line, train buffs and members of the Regional Economic Development Council could make a reasonable claim that a fresh conversation wasn’t warranted.
But now that local government leaders have embraced the debate, it’s probably time for everyone — including New York state — to come to the table.
Tags: railstrails
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I’ve seen a lot of very cool videos like this, though they always make me wish I could see all of the out-takes. The editing makes it look so smooth. Still, the skill level is incredible.
Snowflake, the other thing about noise is snowmachines. At least he train would be on a schedule. The screaming hordes would come through at all hours.
In a good snow winter are there hoards of snowmobilers using this corridor? They can do it now if there is enough snow right? Will this “extension” of the season make a big difference? For this project I think we may be talking about improving local use of the corridor and maybe not a move that will be a huge draw? We have seen the same thing with other “improved access” projects. Just the locals showed up. Which is a good thing but not really what was planned.
“Will this “extension” of the season make a big difference?”
Paul all the hype is that it will make a huge difference, and draw snowmobiles by the thousands. If it doesn’t, why take up the tracks? They actually do draw outsiders. That’s exactly my concern here– we’ve got people claiming all sorts of things about the economic benefits, but what they’re really interested in is their own jollies.
“In a good snow winter are there hoards of snowmobilers using this corridor?”
Actually Paul I’ve heard some harrowing tales from people who have houses or cabins on the corridor, usually involving drunken riders at late hours.
This is probably just an ignorant question but can’t you do both? Why do you have to rip up the tracks? Just widen the bed a little and have it be multi-use. That way you don’t lose the tracks if anything ever does come of the train idea and you can still use the rail line itself for cross country ski and biking.
No merval it is far from an ignorant question. Having a bike/hiking trail sounds like an excellent idea, don’t really care about snowmobilers. But there are a couple of things that bother me about this whole issue.
First, there is the negative attitude that we can’t have both rail and a trail. With ARTA the attitude comes across as my way or the highway. I remember once when everything was possible in the good old USA. We really are becoming a nation of pessimists. I’m a bit tired of hearing why trail is the only option.
Second, although I’m pretty much convinced by the arguments for a trail put forth by ARTA, they’ve turned me off by the way they immediately respond to every letter or comment published by rail advocates (example – this blog post). Sorry, but they come across almost as a group of bullies.
Third, why do you need nice smooth trails for snowmobiles? Ski-doo advertises sled designed for both on and off trail. I seem to remember 50 years ago that a snowmobile could go pretty much anywhere as long as there was snow. Of course, 50 years ago snowmobilers might go 30-40 miles an hour tops. Today it seems you need a nice smooth level trail so you can use everyone of those 163 horsepower.
Mervel, use Google Maps to search for “Lake Clear, NY” – find the train tracks and follow them west toward Tupper Lake. There are sections that simply can not be widened.
So, along with being a ginormous waste of money, I’m just not sure a real side-by-side trail is feasible.
You know what, I would be all for doing both if it was a realistic goal and if we had double tracks so that one could be removed for a trail. But we don’t. I don’t snowmobile as a recreational pursuit but I can tell you that the snowmobile economy in NYS is over 860 million. That alone is significantly more than the tourist train economy is without the additional benefit of a recreation trail. Bottom line is we cannot afford both and we cannot afford to lose the opportunity to benefit economically from the trail. ARTA is not bullying anyone. They are educating people on the benefits of the trail vs train. From what I can see, the back door political dealings of the REDC and ANCA, the threats both perceived and received by some trail supporters by train enthusiasts are the true bully’s. I guess if you can’t support your position with facts then it’s ok attack someone who can. The few train people that I know cannot support their position. I’ve asked over and over to convince me and they just say it’s the only railroad from Old Forge to Lake Placid. That is not good enough. Especially with Big Tupper closing. If any one town needed this recreation trail it would be Tupper Lake.
“There are sections that simply can not be widened.”
True, but there may be sections where the bike/ski/snowmobile trail could be re-routed around sections where side-by-side wouldn’t work. Take the Colby causeway: let the train have it and run a trail around to the south of Little Colby, or use the existing snowmobile trail north of Colby through Camp Colby.
“ARTA is not bullying anyone.”
I have been badgered to sign an ARTA petition by an ARTA person who didn’t want to take no for an answer, and who assured me that if it was ever thought that rail service should be reestablished, the tracks could easily be put back. Yeah, right. I wonder how many of the signatures on ARTA petitions are from people who were just being polite or were tired of being harassed.
“They are educating people on the benefits of the trail vs train.”
Educating, eh? That’s not how it struck me.
“…the snowmobile economy in NYS is over 860 million.” Sure, but how much of that is the tri-lakes ever going to see?
“The few train people that I know cannot support their position.” Sure, not to your satisfaction, but then can you really imagine an argument that you would accept? Not from what I’ve seen and heard from ARTA people.
Pnle yes me also ,personally yes I would use this if it was xcntry ski trail I honestly just don’t care about the train and would likely not use it. However it just seems to me rash to rip out the rail lines, I think once that is done you can’t go back they are lost forever. Another option just don’t run the train in the winter and let it be used as a trail.
The snowmobile economy is over 860 million according to a recent study just released by SUNY
Potsdam. 28% of that is directly attributed to the Adirondack Region as a whole. You can read the whole study on NYSSA website.
You don’t want to believe that the current old style tracks can be replaced by new modern tracks if they should ever be needed. Fine believe what you want. But, the reality of it is, first of all, we won’t need them in my lifetime or the next 30 years. So we should let this asset go to the user who is the most expensive investment wise and produces the least economic wise because? Give me a reason. I keep asking that question over and over and I get nothing except half baked excuses. The idea that we might need it someday is not a satisfactory answer. I will never snowmobile on this corridor but I realize the potential. I know many people who have wrecked their sleds to the tune of thousands of dollars on those tracks so they won’t be returning unless they are gone. I will, though, ride my bike there well into my old age,if it is built, along with friends and family. I’ll be happy to pack my panniers and head to Lake Lila and beyond stopping for a swim, before heading on to Old Forge. So tell your ARTA friend to back off ( he must be a friend if he keeps badgering you) you’re not willing to change your mind and your tired of his badgering. Jeez, I have friends who agree with me but won’t sign because they don’t like to sign petitions period or they are afraid for their state jobs. Whatever. There are already over 9000 signatures. There are plenty more people out there that will think this is a great idea once they know about it.
So what is the cost of removing the tracks and making into a snowmobile trail?
According to the national Rails to Trails Conservancy study (which you can find at http://www.thearta.org) a hard packed surfaced trail can be built from Lake Placid to Tupper Lake with the current salvage value of the rails with funds left over. I do not know the dollar figure offhand but it is in the study. Before everyone freaks out about salvaging the rails, it is addressed in the current Unit Management Plan as a distinct possibility of funding to build a recreation trail in the corridor. From Tupper to Old Forge just the removal of the rails and ties will open it up for snowmobiling safely and it would be an acceptable surface for mountain bikes. Additional funds would be needed to bring that leg up to the same surface standard as the Tri Lake Leg. According to DOT s figures from their own 2009 railroad survey, approximately 43 million would be required to bring the rails up to class 3 standard.
Brian, your claim that a year round train from Old Forge to Lake Placid is not feasible is one of the most misguided bits of tripe to come from anyone at NCPR all year. (And I should know…I’m a member and I listen every day from 5 a.m.!) There was recently a story on VPR about the success of the Vermonter. The Vermonter and the Ethan Allen use rails that had been abandoned for years before being rehabilitated for passenger service. Today, Vermonters can’t imagine living without rail service, and ridership is up 8% over last year. Tens of thousands of people come to Vermont via train who otherwise might not, due to distance and the uncertainty of winter driving.
What we need is a train from Utica to Lake Placid. We do not need 70 miles of emptiness; we already have miles of emptiness on the Bloomingdale Bog Trail (the former D & H tracks) that run through Onchiota and some much more scenic land than the Utica line. You want a nice, flat campsite any day of the summer? Pitch your tent in the middle of that bike trail, and no one will bother you.
Emmet –
First, I am capable of much greater tripe than my comment here.
Secondly, I think your argument is a stretch. The Vermonter is a train route that primarily services major population centers: Washington DC, New York, Burlington.
Yes, it spurs for its final stretch to St. Albans, but come on — that’s a bit different than running a train through a vast stretch of the Adirondack wilderness, far from any roads or highways.
It also comes from and goes to places people want to go. I live in the Tri-Lakes. I don’t EVER hear anyone say, “I think I’ll head over the Utica this weekend.”
So, barring some really good data, I’m sticking to my tripe…
–Brian, NCPR
Flake, you think there’s $240 million coming into the Adirondacks yearly right now?
That’s not what the report shows. It says that 28% of the days spent snowmobiling occurs in the Adirondacks. But multiplying that by the total spent on snowmobiling is bogus, since that total includes the cost of the sleds, club dues and donations, the cost of the trailers, highway tolls, insurance. What portion of that expenditure happens up here?
“So tell your ARTA friend to back off ( he must be a friend if he keeps badgering you)…”
No this was no friend, this was someone who collared me at a farmers market. I’d never seen him before in my life. That’s why its easy to imagine that a number of those petition signature are from people who just wanted to be left alone and figured that signing was harmless.
“You don’t want to believe that the current old style tracks can be replaced by new modern tracks if they should ever be needed.”
Sure, we could put in a maglev monorail, why not? While we’re spending imaginary money, why be cheap?
“I keep asking that question over and over and I get nothing except half baked excuses.”
Like I said, nothing would satisfy you– anyone who doesn’t agree with you has nothing but half baked excuses for their opinion.
“But, the reality of it is, first of all, we won’t need them in my lifetime or the next 30 years.”
Thirty years ago was 1982. Ronald Reagan was just starting the second year of his presidency. The Internet was in it’s infancy. There were no cell phones in the U.S. GPS didn’t exist as a consumer technology. There were no digital cameras. MTV was still showing music videos. The Weather Channel was brand new. Etc. So don’t tell me that you know what will be happening in the next 30 years.
Come to think of it, “we won’t need them in the next 30 years” is a half-baked excuse for ripping up the tracks.
“that’s a bit different than running a train through a vast stretch of the Adirondack wilderness, far from any roads or highways.”
I thought that this thing runs through areas that are easy to drive to? I don’t think it really is. Most “wildness” spots in the Adirondacks are already close to a road. My idea was just an adventurous way to get to some of them.
Walker, I agree there are some crazy sledders out there. My questions was is this corridor a big tourist draw (as is claimed) when there is plenty of snow to run it, as in numbers as opposed to their level of intoxication. Is the “if you built it they will come” idea, true? What is the market data tell us?
I should make something clear. I have nothing to do with Adirondack Scenic Railroad– I’m not a member, I’m not a volunteer, I have no friends who are involved.
I am a history buff, though, and to me, ripping up the tracks is similar to tearing down an historic building– there’s no going back– those 120 year old rails are gone forever, melted down for scrap.
I am also a hiker and a cross-country skier. To me, the idea of a rail trail for hiking in the Adirondacks is crazy– I can’t imagine a more boring hike: flat, straight, the curves are all wide-radius. The Adirondacks is loaded with beautiful trails that twist and climb. I suppose the rail/trail would be better on a bike, though it still seems to me likely to be a boring ride; your average two-lane blacktop would be more interesting scenically. I suspect, though, that the rail/trail would be at its best at 50 mph or better, if you’re into that sort of thing. But it’s popularity with sledders pretty much ruins it for x-c skiers.
I also dislike high-pressure salesmanship.
“…is this corridor a big tourist draw (as is claimed) when there is plenty of snow to run it?”
I have no idea. The stretch I’m familiar with in Saranac Lake certainly gets iced over by sledders every weekend, but I would guess they’re mostly local. But I think Charlie’s Inn in Lake Clear does a good deal of business with snowmobilers from away. I suspect there’s a strong element of fantasy in the projections of tourist dollars that taking up the tracks would generate, but I can’t prove it any more than ARTA can prove the opposite. The only way to find out is to take the irrevocable step.
Man you are one bitter man there Mr. Walker, I feel sorry for your poor badgered self. It is my opinion, and you certainly entitled to yours, that until we have a significant increase in our population base the reality of regular train service is pie in the sky. No one says you have to agree with me but there are a lot of people who do. If you have a crystal ball or some real information that states that our population base is increasing enough to warrant the investment in the train, spill it. The train went out of business years ago for lack of freight and passengers and the population base was larger then. Quit making it sound like you are being persecuted by ARTA members when apparently,one time, an enthusiastic member tried to get you to sign a petition.
That is, take the irrevocable step, or prove it on a line that has already had the tracks removed. That would be my choice. Make a rail/trail from Lake Clear to Malone. You can already do it on a skidoo, it’s just never been turned into a year-round trail. ARTA has all sorts of half-baked reasons why it can’t possibly be done, though. Mostly, they wouldn’t get to start off with that nice cash infusion from selling the rails. And it would take a lot of work, since that line hasn’t been maintained for twenty years by rail buffs.
Mr. Flake, if you bothered to read my comments, you’d know that I’m not trying to sell the idea that regular train service is likely in this area. And I’m not the least bit bitter– where do you get that? I never said I was being persecuted by anyone, just that I had one annoying run-in with one high pressure salesman that I found offensive. That and a lot of heavy-handed commentary here and elsewhere to the effect that anyone who wanted to keep the rails was obviously a fool.
Walker – I too had an experience with an ARTA petitioner. Although he didn’t badger me to sign their petition, when I refused, he walked away making a snide comment. The group just rubs me the wrong way.
I thought it was a Mrs. Flake? What made you think Wlaker was bitter? Seriuosly. Question? What is the plan for the tresels? I would not want to ride my bike acros that tresel near pine street in SL? I have been across it on a snowmobile and it was scary. Are there other similar crossings. I have been on the Cape Cod rail to trail. The beach is the draw not the crowded and slow bike trail.
I believe some people still do not clearly understand that we are talking about a rail corridor that has not had train service in over 40 years. The majority of this corridor is in such deteriorated condition that passenger trains are not allowed on it and the cost to repair this corridor has been estimated at over 40 million dollars. The Adirondack Scenic Railroad will tell you that tax dollars should be used pay this bill because increasing their line will allow them to bring 7000 more people to the Adirondacks (this is from their own study). While a recent study completed by the National Rails to Trails Conservancy indicates that removing the rails and creating a recreation trail, just from Tupper Lake to Lake Placid would draw 240,000 new visitors who would spend 20 million dollars during their visit. And this does not include the increase in snowmobile traffic which would surely occur once the tracks are gone. This snowmobile economic impact potential has been estimated at 44 million dollars for the North Country. I reside in Tupper Lake and our town needs these visitors. There are not enough residents in the tri-lakes to support a seasonal tourist train and the ride from Old Forge to the tri-lakes will be too long for most people to be interested. This decision should simply be about economics and quality of life for residents of the Adirondacks. There has not been viable train service on the majority of these tracks in over 40 years and not one company has even remotely expressed an interest in restoring passenger or frieght service to the Adirondacks. It is time to removed the rusting rails and rotting ties and embrace outdoor recreation which is why most people are coming to the Adirondacks anyway. Our town could become “First Stop Tupper Lake – The Gateway to Your Adirondack Adventure”
Sorry, Walker, I posted my last comment before yours posted so I didn’t get to read them. You just sound bitter to me because up til that last comment, explaining your personal position, you seemed more intent on discrediting ARTA and their supporters rather than providing any real reasons as to why we should keep the train. Now we know you are a history buff and appreciate old things as they relate to history. I can respect that. I’m very interested in the preservation of history, especially as it pertains to architectural history. I love the old restored train stations, especially the original ones. Saranac Lake’s is a beauty. I just don’t have the same attachment you do to the rails and ties. Hunks of steel lying on railroad ties that are almost dirt doesn’t do it for me aesthetically but to each his own. I have a different vision of participating in history than you do. I can see lots of people enjoying the corridor while recreating. Stopping in to visit restored stations along the way. Learning about the history of the train and the communities and people behind them while traveling along the corridor. I hope to see other stations rebuilt along the way as interpretive centers for the all the history of the area, including natural history. I have personal experience on these venues and they are extremely popular. I’ve met a lot of people who really are looking for this type of venue. You apparently don’t like to be approached by enthusiastic people, I get that. But, I would bet that the majority of those signatures came from people going to their website and signing up themselves. That’s what I did. It was pretty easy.
Topgun,
No I did not realize that. I would be totally against any of my tax dollars being used to refurb a rail line to the tune of tens of millions.
Like I said if the taxpayers of Clinton, Essex and Franklin want to add a little to their property or sales taxes to pay for this tourist investment, that would be fine. But beyond that no way. If you want it and live in the area then pay for it. Its not hard.
But certainly don’t expect the taxpayers of New York outside of those counties to foot the bill for something that certainly has no true commercial value.
Now if we are talking about supporting rail in general from a commercial and statewide view yes I would support that. For example looking at true investment with support from CSX or AMTRAK to run regular service between Plattsburgh-Malone-Potsdam Canton- Watertown etc. Possibly a line from Malone to Albany which could link up Lake Placid etc., maybe. But you would need major buy in from the professional’s who are currently operating rail service in our state. If they think it would work and be self sustaining I certainly would favor some taxpayer investment in the rails.
I will grant you that the Saranac Lake to Lake Placid end of the railroad has been disappointing. It’s not hard to understand why– these projects are extraordinarily difficult.
But since the ARTA supporters are presenting an extremely rosy view of what the rail/trail corridor could amount to someday, let me present another. Imagine the state finally getting the line up to speed, and the ASR folks getting their hands on a couple of steam engines and antique rail cars. Add in Paul’s idea of whistle-stop camping service, and tourists arriving at Saranac Lake for the Carousel and at Tupper Lake for the Wild Center (with a shuttle, of course), and I think you’d have a resource well worth the cost. And if we could add a parallel hike/bike/ski/snowmobile trail (preferably not quite so flat and straight) and you’d really have something.
I know, it’s not going to happen tomorrow. But this recession will end some day. I, for one, am willing to wait.
Walker, it’s nice that you are willing to wait for something may or may not happen. You must be very comfortable financially. Good for you. But, there are many people in the Tri Lakes struggling to keep their businesses afloat in in Tupper Lake pretty much failing to keep them afloat. I too am financially comfortable but I am painfully aware that many around me are not. I have seen first hand and I have also done the research myself to see what theses recreation trails have done for communities. Especially small rural one on the verge of extinction. I personally don’t think sacrificing some steel to build a trail in the name of economics is a bad thing. The railbed will remain. I think that a lot of people only see how it might affect them personally. Building this rec trail will do nothing for me financially. Keeping it a train will do nothing for me either. So, why do I care? I care about my neighbors, my town and my physical and mental well being. As a retired forest ranger told me, as I was explaing the idea to him, “Wow! What a terrific idea! I can’t hike into the backcountry like I used to in my hey day but boy would I jump at a chance to hike or bike a level path into the wilderness.”
Well, I’m reminded of a family that had to sell the old place to get them through a rough period but then regretted it ever after. Is Tupper really “on the verge of extinction”? Will it go under if the rails aren’t ripped up? Certainly Saranac Lake and Lake Placid are doing OK, and yet many of ARTA’s supporters are from those towns.
“Walker, it’s nice that you are willing to wait for something may or may not happen.”
Both sides are going to have to be willing to wait for something may or may not happen:
“While a recent study completed by the National Rails to Trails Conservancy indicates that removing the rails and creating a recreation trail, just from Tupper Lake to Lake Placid would draw 240,000 new visitors who would spend 20 million dollars during their visit.”
Topgun. Over what period of time was this referring to?? If it is per year for bikers wow! That is over 1000 riders a day (1333) for a 6 month cycling season. This doesn’t sound like a fun ride to me. But that is what you see on a Cape Cod rail to trail type bike path. I have never heard from any of my friends that they went to Cape Cod to ride the trail specifically but maybe this trail has some kind of other aura that I just can’t comprehend. If this is true then I take back all my earlier comments. A trail is the way to go. But I suggest that the winter use be a Scandinavian style groomed cross county ski trail. It would be one of a kind for the east, and even if no body comes I still get to ski it. The bikers will easily pay for the whole year.
“That is over 1000 riders a day (1333) for a 6 month cycling season.”
Yeah, Paul, and that’s just the new riders. I would think there would be about an equal number of local riders on any given day. That makes almost 90 riders to the mile!
Of course there is just the slightest possibility that the National Rails to Trails Conservancy is smoking fairy dust.
In general I like the idea of using the corridor for something other than the way it is being utilized now. I think we all agree that it has more potential. The question is just what is best. For me I would make one decision factor be “uniqueness” of the idea. That is why I said if a bike trail is really a big draw then we should consider what to do the other 6 months of the year. (I think it would be a draw or sorts, but given the terrain (pretty flat) I doubt it is as big a draw as we hope). Maybe a snowmobile trail is the answer? I prefer something else but that is just me. To me it does not pass the “unique” test.
Also, I never saw any answers on the tresel question. Look at just the tresel over the Saranac River near down town Saranac Lake. There is no way that just nailing some boards across that thing would make it code for bikes and snowmobiles. I know I would not want my kids biking over it the way it is now. Are there other issues in other places? Going across it now on a snowmobile is probably thrilling if you are afraid of heights? It has been a while since I have done that.
Paul – they will probably remove the tressels with the rails
Really? How are you supposed to get across. Swim with your bike? I wouldn’t want to snowmobile across some of those spots. You are kidding right?
I finally got around to looking carefully at the RR on Google maps. That RR is far from roads in many places and looks very wild. It looks like their are many places (just between Saranac Lake and Big Moose) where you could have new trails and new places for paddlers to access ponds and lakes. Outside of the immediate tri-lakes area I think that for bikers it would be hardcore mt. bikers at best using that, and do they really like flat terrain? There are sections where you have miles and miles before you would have any amenities.
not kidding-why would they leave them in? too much liability.
Bridges of any sort that are open to the public and paid for with public money(thus are up to code, safe etc.) are expensive.
I finally got around to looking carefully at the RR on Google maps. That RR is far from roads in many places and looks very wild. It looks like their are many places (just between Saranac Lake and Big Moose) where you could have new trails and new places for paddlers to access ponds and lakes. Outside of the immediate tri-lakes area I think that for bikers it would be hardcore mt. bikers at best using that, and do they really like pancake flat terrain? There are sections where you have miles and miles before you would have any amenities.
They are currently re-furbishing the tracks at the Old Forge end and extending them an additional 6 miles. I saw a story on this recently. They were showing the automated machines they now have that re-does the rails. How much is this new project costing per mile? When they estimated the costs to re-do the rails did they take into account the current technology they now have for laying rails?
Mervel, do you mean we would not be able to have one of those bridges where the boards fall into the water behind us? They look fun in the Indiana Jones movies.
For what it is worth, the first Rail to Trail project I am aware of to be built anywhere in the North Country is the Warren County Bikeway between Glens Falls and Lake George. It is mostly flat and not very scenic but it is well used. People love it.
The US military must have a huge surplus of Bailey Bridges available for public projects at low cost. They are pre-engineered for nearly any span and were designed to carry tanks. They were modular and made so they could be assembled in the field by hand without the use of a crane. New bridges shouldn’t be an insurmountable problem.
Try dealing with NYS regulations when building a walk bridge, let alone a bridge that is meant for vehicles. Pre fab army bridges are not going to cut it. No, new bridges are not insurmountable, but make no mistake, they will end up being expensive.
Which may be OK? Does CSX use Baily bridges when working in NYS? Does the NYS DOT approve Baily Bridges for public use? Come on this is NYS, that sort of idea makes sense but it is NOT going to happen here.
I think they use some form of Bailey-type bridge as temporary bridges when replacing highway bridges all the time.
I imagine that existing railroad bridges will be used and modified to accept pedestrian, bicycle and snowmobile traffic. The snowmobile community will be out in force to temporarily modify the bridges as soon as the ASR train leaves Lake Placid for it’s winter home in Utica. There are national standards for these things developed by the Federal Board of Transportation. Part of the reason to use the existing railbed is to avoid having to build new bridges.
The current ties are so dilapidated that you can literally pry the spikes out of them, without any tools, in a lot of cases. When the train travels back to Utica, it goes so slowly,that one can almost walk along side it, due to the track conditions. Without state funding to rebuild the tracks there is little hope of ASR running a train from Utica to Lake Placid anytime soon. The question is: Is this where our tax dollars should be spent, reviving this railroad? Some say yes. 9000 plus so far say no.
Anyone who questions the number of people who would use this receation path in a year just needs to go sit on the Burlington Bike Path or the Warren County Bike Path for a day and watch the numer and variety of users going by. Keep in mind that the proposed path will be at least 34 miles long and most people will only be using a small portion of it at time. This includes runners, walkers, roller blades, fisherman and bicyclists. Although I believe the majority of the people will be biking, many will simply be out for some exercise and fresh air. In Tupper Lake alone hundreds of people will simply take the opportunity to walk out to Underwood Bridge and watch the sun rise or set. We also have a state campground nearby that averages 180,000 visitors a year. This campground is located right next to the rail corridor and is only six miles from Tupper Lake via the trail. Roughly three quarters of the people visiting the campground bring bikes with them and would be thrilled with a trail like this. It is the kind of recreation families are looking for. Even if only half the campers from this one campground used this trail we would be well on our way to 240,000. I believe most people are coming to the Adirondacks for outdoor recreation, not to ride a train.
Uh, sorry, but Burlington is a city of 42,000. Not quite the same as the tri-lakes. It’s exactly the kind of comparison you folks are always making.
And if half of the campers use the trail, so what? It’s free, and they were here visiting the Adirondacks anyway. It’s not putting any new money in anyone’s pocket.
And rollerblader’s aren’t going to use it unless it’s black-topped– that’s not in any of the plans that I’ve seen.
Pipedreams.