Sandy, complexity, competence
IMAGE: NYS
It may well be that next Tuesday, Republicans will take control of the entire Federal government, winning the White House and the US Senate.
This is a political party that has moved into full and direct opposition to many (if not most) of the services that Americans take for granted that government will provide, from the social safety net to the kind of emergency FEMA response that we saw during tropical storm Irene and Hurricane Sandy.
The one exception to the GOP’s ideological distaste for government is the US military.
Where most other aspects of the Federal government’s role enter into the debate, the party’s distaste — though sometimes veiled or muddled — shines through. Government is a force that shackles creativity, limits freedom, and stifles entrepreneurship.
North Country congressional candidate Matt Doheny — though supportive of some government infrastructure projects — regularly describes Federal social welfare programs as “a hammock,” the implication being that services of this kind create a disincentive to hard work and independence.
Presidential candidate Mitt Romney gave full-throated endorsement during the GOP primary to eliminating FEMA, dispersing emergency response functions to the states, or even to private companies.
“Every time you have an occasion to take something from the federal government and send it back to the states, that’s the right direction,” Romney said, in answer to a question about natural disasters and FEMA funding. “And if you can go even further and send it back to the private sector, that’s even better.”
The problem with this approach is that Republicans still haven’t explained how this new system — which, remember, involves life and death matters — is supposed to work.
If we downsize the social safety net, how do we as a moral people prevent more poor and vulnerable Americans from dying for lack of food, medicine, and safe housing?
What do we do when an entire region of the US is crippled by a storm, or an earthquake or a series of tornadoes?
In the past, Republicans have offered answers to these questions that sound wholesome and satisfying, arguing that 19th century values like generosity, independence, faith and community spirit can fill the gap.
But as we’ve seen this week in New York City and New Jersey, America doesn’t look or work like that anymore. Lower Manhattan isn’t a village where the local deacon and the mayor can help out those people who are struggling with a potluck dinner and a barn-raising.
This is a massively complex social structure involving more than ten million people, all of them bound together by incredibly intricate layers of infrastructure and technology. Just the mechanisms for delivering safe food and water — let alone electricity — to that region beggars the imagination of the layman.
New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, himself a former Republican and now an independent, spoke to this ideological question after the storm this week.
“New York City taxes itself and spends the money to protect us and to have the services that will keep us going,” he argued. “Which always annoys me when they say ‘You’re a high taxed place.’ Yeah, and we get something for it.”
Indeed, we saw this week what happens when competent, well-funded government works well. Government forecasters warned us of the storm. Government first-responders led by elected officials prepared and offered support and guidance to civilians.
In the end, roughly 75 people died in the US because of this disaster. Without the intervention and courage of taxpayer funded government workers, institutions and programs, that number would certainly have been much, much higher.
If Republicans do take control in January, they owe it to their constituents to study the response to Hurricane Sandy, by Bloomberg, by New York’s Democratic Governor Andrew Cuomo, Republican Governor Chris Christie in New Jersey and Democratic President Barack Obama.
The storm is a metaphor for much larger questions about the role of government and governmental agencies when Americans are vulnerable.
It’s one thing to argue that the Federal government should play a limited (or no) role in saving big companies or industries, or to argue that bureaucrats shouldn’t pick “winners and losers” in the private sector economy, or to debate the need for stimulus spending during a recession.
Those are important economic matters, and they’re fair game for dispute, because they are not literally life and death. But there are also moments when people’s safety and welfare hangs in the balance.
Consider this: 74 people died, so far, from Sandy.
But independent studies from groups like Harvard Medical School, the Cambridge Health Alliance, Families USA and the Institute of Medicine have found that between 18,000 and 50,000 Americans die every year because they lack health insurance and access to basic medical care.
That’s an invisible hurricane of much greater magnitude. Buried in those statistics are shockingly high rates of death from preventable and curable disease, and a dismal record of infant mortality.
So it’s time for the modern conservative movement to fill in some blanks.
Out on the campaign trail, it may suffice to say that “government is the problem” and that the private sector will answer all our needs with the lowest cost and the greatest efficiency. It’s enough to say we’ll overturn Obamacare without explaining what new reforms to the healthcare system will replace it.
But as Sandy has shown, sometimes problems arrive on our doorstep uninvited. Sometimes it’s a storm hitting a vulnerable community. Sometimes it’s cancer or heart disease hitting a poor person who lacks insurance.
When challenges are that big and lethal, I have no doubt but that Americans will continue to look to Washington for a competent, compassionate response. If Republicans are in power, they should be ready.
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You don’t want Obama care? Fine. What should replace it? You don’t want FEMA? Fair enough. What fills its place? You don’t want government entitlement programs?
Legitimate position, but what fills those needs for vulnerable old and poor people?
So far, the conservative movement has tended to answer with two broad ideological arguments: a) The private sector will sort it out, and b) there isn’t really a problem — it’s the government’s fault.
If I provided for my kids’ every need, they wouldn’t grow up.
If I sorted everything out for them, they wouldn’t grow up.
The conservative movement is not saying get rid of all programs and/or assistance. The conservative movement view is the Federal government has done too much and a portion of society has come to depend on the it (i.e., spoiled kids). Not to mention if you can’t pay for something you don’t keep borrowing.
Give the American people a chance to show what they’re made of. Word on the ground is residents in some communities are pitching in to clean storm drains and such. We’ve got it in us. But if the government gives too much – people get lazy and feel entitled.
Brian Mann,
“If we downsize the social safety net, how do we as a moral people prevent more poor and vulnerable Americans from dying for lack of food, medicine, and safe housing?”
Stop asking such a biased question. Conservatives genuinely don’t believe that poor people dying because they can’t afford basic necessities such as medicine is a problem. In their view, it’s the natural order of things and to tax others in order to help the poor afford the necessities of life is a form of theft and strongly immoral.
Now, I strongly disagree with that philosophy and find it to be callous and unworkable, but I think it’s important to recognize that some people have that philosophy and it is not objectively wrong. Conservatives don’t have to propose a method of resolving problems such as the uninsured, especially since doing so would violate their own beliefs. Nonetheless, voters are free, and I hope that they will, reject them for failing to do so.
Dave, The Republican Party is made up of two sorts….There are the evil tricksters at the top, who’s only intention is to funnel all of the wealth into the pockets of their friends…And there are the sheep, those who believe some concocted tale about moral values, historic conservatism, and rugged individualism…who also believe that they too shall become rich someday if only we could throw off the burdens of government regulation. These are the people who the tricksters and outright liars call “the base”, and it is these poor misguided folks who will vote for the likes of Romney, McCain, Bush, Reagan, Nixon……….
The conservative movement view is the Federal government has done too much and a portion of society has come to depend on the it (i.e., spoiled kids).
Okay. So let’s have some specifics. Exactly who makes up this population of society that has come to depend on government?
I am not at the top, so I guess I am not a “trickster” so I must be a sheep? But I am not too rich or too poor???
Remember Katrina? When the federal and state governments don’t do a good job with disasters people die and the country notices.
Peter Hahn “When the federal and state governments don’t do a good job with disasters people die and the country notices.”
Yeah. Chris Steven’s family agrees with that, I’m sure.
I am not sure about that tootight. I guess I would be a sheep in your description although I am not a Republican. But from what I can tell Liberals are more controlling than many conservatives, they want to control the actions of individuals, they want society to act a certain way and use certain speech, and not do this and not do that and regulate people to enforce their vision; and to the degree that the Republican Party has elements in it that would stand for individual liberty and stand against that ; I would favor those things. I have no illusions about becoming wealthy nor do I necessarily have that as the desire of my heart and I don’t think throwing off government regulations will help me get rich.
There are a group of people who often vote Republican who simply don’t trust big government or think that the social issues espoused by the Democratic Party are just not what they can ever support and this is why they would vote Republican.
We certainly need government help in disasters, but lets face it, look at our own disasters in the North Country,was it FEMA that helped us? Really? No it was national grid crews and crews from around the country helping them get our power up, it was our local government trying to clear the ice, it was our neighbors and not for profits.
If we have an illusion of waiting around for the Federal government I think this is the problem and this creates this idea that somehow we don’t have to take care of ourselves.
I started to try to respond to some points and then I realized that they are some of the same things we’ve been talking about here, and as a nation, for a long time. As I’ve said before, I have some of the same concerns about our country as many of the conservatives on here. I don’t want the government to waste tax money; I want a reduction in our national debt and annual deficits; I want our kids to have a good education so they can get good jobs; I want a strong national defense…I could go on and on with points that everyone can agree on.
But I have come to the conclusion that it is basically pointless to try to address these important issues with some people. You have found me out, it all a lie.
You are correct, the government can’t do a damn thing right except waste money. All I want is a handout so that I dont have to work. Lots of us have babies just to collect extra money. I’m lazy and stupid and I dont have any aspirations for anything better for myself or my kids. You are morally superior to me. Everything you say is correct and anything I believe is wrong. I want America to fail. I hope the Terrorist win. I want Islamofascists to take over the country and institute Sharia Law. I want illegal immigrants to take all of our jobs. I’m spreading AIDs and bedbugs. Someday I want it to be legal to marry animals. Hurricanes are Gods vengeance against our wickedness. Obama is a Kenyan Manchurian Candidate. Obama doesnt have a birth certificate. I am a Black Panther and we are coming for your wives and daughters. Your wives and daughters are hoping we’ll find them.
We control the weather. 9/11 was an inside job. Global Warming is a hoax. I love abortions.
Did I miss anything?
I think we should all switch our news sources for 1 week to enlighten ourselves.
Can you believe this?!!! Brian Mann, sitting safely in his easy chair in the Adirondacks calls a guy living through the hurricane a LIAR!!!!!! Yeah, Brian, I’m sure you know a lot more than some one with boots ont he ground. Why don;t you peddle yuour pasty white butt down there and live it. Bet Obama will come and hodlk your hand.
Mr R
Anyone who lived through our Ice Storm in 98 saw how effective the Feds are. It wasn’t the Feds distributiong food, making medicine runs, delivering fuel and checking on people. It was local citizens, fire men, Deputys and State Troopers. Ask Dede Scozafava how much help the Feds were, or the Red Cross for that matter. Ask Barb Heller who was fueling the generator Brian, it wasn’t a FEMA guy. Or go toalk to people who wnet though 9/11, it was locals doing the work and the Feds show up days later to tell everyone how they’re doing it wrong. Read the reports coming out of Staten Island where no one from the gov’t has showed up at all, but ministrys are delivering food and helping people. Stop believeing the answer is the one centralized gov’t,. It’s not, the answer is people helping people and working out from the grass roots.
Mr R
The US government is not the enemy.
You betray your own ignorance on this subject when you suggest federal agencies do nothing because federal employees are not the ones actually running generators. Such a simplistic view.
I’m certainly not suggesting that the Federal Government is the enemy. I think they have an important, vital role, especially when events like Sandy unfold. I also believe that events like storm recovery should be started and directed locally with timely assistance from higher levels of government. FEMA and the all-powerful Federal Government are being looked for anxiously in Staten Island today. So said the Staten Island Borough President on TV this morning. What’s the advice from Saranac Lake?
Rancid’s point about 9/11 is absolutely correct. The NYPD & NYFD did the heavy lifting on 9/11 and long afterwards. They were ably assisted by volunteers from all over. I’m sure the Feds pitched in with money and advice, as they should have done, but it was a local effort that started, directed and finished the job. That is how it should work.
The Rockaways and outer boroughs of NYC are in dire straits.
The report this morning is no Fema and no Red Cross.
Interesting.
The US government is not the enemy
But we’re sure getting hit with some friendly fire.
“The report this morning is no Fema and no Red Cross.”
How come? I thought the Feds would take care of everything.
Well in every natural disaster there are complaints.
I am not against the federal government nor are they the “enemy” not even close. We need a coordinated disaster response which integrates, local government, not for profits, state government and the federal government along with the private providers of our infrastructure services (food, transportation, energy, etc.). This is important. However the federal government helps in that role it is not in charge of that process.
I actually think people believe that the federal government is bigger and more powerful than it actually is, that there is some large giant complex somewhere where swarms of FEMA minions wait around to be sent out to help in disasters. This does not exist, it is a relatively small agency that will help coordinate dollars at some point to help the local response. Thus the illusion that there is this big benevolent brother out there to come to our aid, is just that an illusion.
The problem with FEMA for those who want to criticize the agency is that it is to SMALL, not that it is too large or incompetent.
FEMA was accused of incompetence after Katrina, with good reason. Nothing seems to have changed.
cmon you guys – you cant have it both ways. Are you saying that the good citizens of Staten Island cant handle things as well as the good citizens of New Jersey? (Since the federal and state governments evidently dont do anything anywhere?)
What Rancid said. These are all easy calls to make, despite Brian’s whining about “complexity.” FEMA has been uniformly terrible and should change its name to FAIL and be shut down:
“…New Jersey’s Chris Christie, whose state bore the brunt of the storm, told CBS News on Tuesday that “cooperation has been great with FEMA here on the ground,” while Delaware’s Jack Markell told CNN that people in his state have been “really, really impressed by the response of FEMA.”…
And they should cancel the marathon, because it will cost money:
“…Mary Wittenberg, chief executive of New York Road Runners, which puts on the race, defended Bloomberg’s decision and said the race would be used as a platform to lift spirits and raise money. Her organization plans to donate $1 million, or $26.20 for every runner who starts the race, to relief efforts in the city. The Rudin Family and ING, two sponsors of the race, will donate a combined $1.6 million to storm relief. Road Runners is working to donate other supplies to relief efforts. …”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/02/sports/officials-defend-decision-to-run-new-york-city-marathon-in-storms-aftermath.html?hpw&_r=0
Well in every natural disaster there are complaints.
Then the President should choose his words carefully when assuring the folks who are suffering that help is on the way.
I understand the complaints and the impatience. But people looking for food in the dumpsters?
Mayor Bloomberg, to lift spirits, how about you go south of 34th street and help? And how about you order those generators at the marathon to be used for something better?
It is a catch-22, thanks for pointing that out Peter. The same people who push and vote to reduce the size and funding of federal agencies like FEMA then turn around and point to its inability to be everywhere, do everything as a reason to get rid of it.
Truth is, there will always be problems and complaints during a disaster of this size. They call them disasters for a reason. There is no way to completely avoid them. What you try to do is minimize the tragedy and hopefully avoid the worst of the mess. Katrina is a good example of what can happen when the feds are absent, or are effectively absent because of poor management.
Things are not rosey right now, but anyone who expected them to be is delusional. We just got hit by the storm of the century. That we are not experiencing another Katrina is a testament to everyone. Citizens, local and state governments, and yes, despite the irrationality on display here, even the federal government. Absent any one of those, this would certainly be worse than it is.
That headline about the dumpsters had to have been the most misleading thing I have seen on Drudge in years… and that is saying something!
The people who were “dumpster diving” in that article were not doing so because they were starving and needed food.
They were doing so because a market had just dumped 40 grand worth of surplus, including high end items. People were taking advantage of the free stuff.
“We just saw all these people in the Dumpster. This isn’t a trash can. This is a heap of food,” Breen said showing off a $7.49 bottle of organic vanilla chai she found.
Taking OA’s suggestion to change it from FEMA to FAIL, would that mean it stands for Federal All Is Lost? Or, Federal Assistance Is Lacking? Or, Federal Agency of Idiots and Lackeys?
What Dave said…Besides, Republicans have proven time and time again how hypocritical they are when it comes to the size of gov’t. If it means money in the pockets of their lobbyists clients, or votes at election time, they’re all for big gov’t. They’ll just claim they’re against it.
Drudge?
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/rock-center/49652584/#49652584
My wife told me to calm down so I will try. What is really getting me steamed is Mr Mann. A couple years back he went on a trip out west someplace and came back and did a piece how he looked around and didn’t see any people out of work, that the diners and stores he was in were busy. So he made the leap that the country was doing just fine and all this unemployment talk in the news was nonsense, that people weren’t having hard times. Today he tells a guy living in the hurricane zone that he’s full of it because Mr Mann is watching the news reports and they say everything is going along fine and everyone is getting help. Well, you can’t have it both ways and say that when B Mann takes a look around it’s fact but when Larry lives through the disaster and is sitting in the middle of it he’s full of crap. I’m just an old guy out here on a friends computer but this arrogant tone and the arrogant tone given off by this Will Doolittle show me reporters have no grip on reality. I cant string words together like they can but everyone can see it’s the locals doing the work, not Obama and his gang. I hope FEMA does get in there and help some people. Instead what we hear about is food inspectors going into soup kitchens and looking for violations! They don’t have any power to pump gas, but the mayor of New York city is taking generators and city workers and using them for a marathon instead of helping people! You tell me everything is okay, I don’t think so.
I heard a great comment today. If Mayor Bloomberg is so into global warming, and part of that warming is rising oceans, how come he (and the powers that be) haven’t been addressing the impending doom in the areas now flooded by the hurricane?
Since conservatives get a bad rap for being backward, old-fashioned, traditional, religious – and don’t understand that thing change, I would like to suggest that many liberals truly have an elite mindset and often lack commons sense. I know such people and they seem to live in a bubble…cloistered…and do not know what it’s like in the real world.
I know many (not all) who, for whatever reason, do not know hot to “get going” when the going gets tough. Like Mayor Bloomberg – saying the marathon will life the spirit of the New Yorkers. The report today is people in hotels who have been displaced from the storm are being asked to leave so the marathon runners will have a place to say.
To say this lacks common sense is an understatement. Wake up people.
sorry for the typos.
“…how come [Bloomberg] hasn’t been addressing the impending doom in the areas now flooded by the hurricane?”
He’s waiting for private industry to take care of it.
Maybe Bloomberg wanted to get elected. You can’t get conservative votes these days if you mention climate change.
rancid writes about brian’s old post:
well, brian’s post is here. have a look.
if you do, you’ll see that what rancid just wrote is a pretty horrible mischaracterization. it’s true that brian did report on busy roads and bustling stores — and was careful to note that that was purely his anecdotal observation. but his takeaway from that was nothing like “the country was doing just fine and all this unemployment talk in the news was nonsense.” that’s a line of pure bull. instead brian’s takeaway was that things had basically stabilized; in his words, that “we’ve avoided tipping off the cliff.” which happened to be a perfectly correct assessment of the situation at the time.
it does us all a disservice when people post misinformation here. it’s especially inexcusable with something like this that can be easily looked up. and that’s to say nothing of using that misinformation in an unfounded attack on another member of the inbox community. rancid should apologize.
i completely agree about the marathon — bloomberg is crazy for still holding it.
The marathon shows a clueless attitude. Marathons fill hotels and utilize a lot of public services you are looking at 40,000 runners alone for this marathon, you could at least double that #for family and other visitors, it seems kind of bizarre. I guess they should have run a marathon in Haiti or New Orleans, what fun! It would have lifted their spirits to see all of the happy runners taking up hotel space that should have gone to people without power and homes.
Yes, Matt Drudge, Kathy. For better or worse, often worse, news sources pick up and report his headlines all the time. The way I know that is happening here with the “dumpster” hysteria, including in that MSNBC snippet, is because the true context of that story… which I provided but had to dig around myself to find… was not mentioned, just as it was not mentioned on Drudge’s site.
Interestingly, the rest of that video is more or a less people pleading for government to do more to help them, not less, and showing how government services are mobilizing to respond. Very relevant to the discussion here.
I have no opinion about the marathon, but the justification I am hearing for it right now is not that it will lift people’s spirits… but that it will bring much needed money to this area. I think the phrase I heard was, “we still need an economy here”
Mervel, to your point, if a Marathon would have brought substantial money to Haiti in the wake of their disaster, I am certain they would been ok with it.
This starts to reek of the faux outrage I talked about in a different comment thread. People in NYC are upset, worried, and confused, so I understand it from them. But others, like a few here, seem to want to grind an axe and make political points… so they are looking for things to be outraged over. A recreational event, even one that will bring money to a city that needs it right now, is an easy target.
I agree with Rancid about Brian. Look at this graph and tell me something other than Obama’s done a terrible job on the economy. You can’t argue with these numbers. Complexity. Ha!
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/11/closing_arguments_1.php?ref=fpblg
Also, look at this graphic, more proof that all of this is government’s fault:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/graphic-superstorm-sandys-toll?ref=fpblg
Like I said upthread, this stuff is all so simple to argue about and place blame for.
Since when is Mayor Bloomberg a Liberal? He is a former Republican who is now an Independent, not a Democrat or Liberal. And many Liberals disagree with many of Bloomberg’s policies, including how he defends the criminals on Wall Street whose gambling trashed the economy, his NYPD mistreatment of the Occupy Wall Street protesters and the NYPD spying on Muslims all over the US.
I agree going forward with the marathon is wrong when so many people are still in survival mode and displaced from their homes. But it could just as easily be said that Mayor Bloomberg’s insensitivity reflects the conservative view of the one-percenters and Randians that the unfortunate are responsible for their plight and should get out of the way of the elite and successful so they can trickle down morsels to the riffraff.
Is the NFL game this Sunday in NY/NJ also getting heat from people? I haven’t heard anything, other than that the Steelers couldn’t find hotel rooms in the city.
I’d be interested in hearing if those outraged about the marathon are also upset over this.
Larry, isn’t there a New Jersey PR site you can troll on?
oa, Thats funny because just looking at your graph it shows positive job growth when he inherited a negative trend. While we all know the president is a communist and doing a terrible job I would think you could find better evidence then a stupid graph. The truth is that this storm is part of Gods plan for us.
Dave, the reports I have been hearing are that no, the city does not need a big infusions of tourist dollars right now, they need hotel rooms, gas, electricity, police protection and order, these are all things that the marathon will disrupt or suck up.
People without homes are being forced out of hotels to make room for the runners, the gas lines are long now, consider the impact of that many people coming into the city all at once for one day, it takes a very large police presence and time to operate a marathon.
The City Controllers office I think has come out against the idea.
Marathon-I’m here, they’re there, and Bloomberg is more knowledgeable than I am. But I just saw something somewhere about a guy in Coney Island wondering about the use of large generators to keep the media tent in Central Park inflated while he, and so many others, shiver in the dark.
You gotta wonder.
Check that- Hardball on MSNBC just reported that NY Post says Marathon is cancelled. I guess Bloomberg is an In-Box lurker.