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The In Box blog is a general news and discussion site for the News Department of North Country Public Radio. In Box contact information
Latest NCPR News
Yes, like Virginia Tech, site of the deadliest shooting incident by a single gunman in U.S. history, with 32 people killed and 17 wounded, April 16, 2007.
So we don’t do anything? I don’t understand the logic.
It’s like saying because we’ve had presidents assassinated, why bother with armed security for presidents?
Six centuries ago, there was no history to explain the universe. Two centuries ago, there was.
I meant to add to the last sentence: two centuries ago there was history to guide the authors of our nation’s documents.
“So we don’t do anything?”
Well for starters, some folks are always complaining about the high cost of education. But you’d rather pay to have a full time armed guard in every one of the tens of thousands of schools in the nation than do the obvious thing of reducing access to the clips that seem to be involved in the vast majority of these shootings?
And by the way, when the recent California shooting (and yes, I know, it was done with a shotgun) happened, their armed guard was at home, snowed in.
“So why isnt the NRA working actively to make sure that all laws are enforced? They have a lot of power. Why was their reaction to Newtown “we need armed guards?”
That has been proposed several times. It doesn’t seem to make the news. Fact is there are already laws covering pretty much everything that’s happened. There are also laws protecting people from unreasonable search and seizure and most people object strongly to having the police check them out and the various civil liberties outfits throw a fit if you even mention putting nutjobs in secure facilities. It’s all too hard, so take the easy target and get a lot of votes, take away people rights!
Walker, so your answer is not to have actual security in place, but rather to pass a law outlawing certain things and hoping that will solve the problem. How’s that working with drugs? Hows that working with theft, burglary, shoplifting, murder, arson, fraud? There are all sorts of laws against credit card fraud, we still have it. There are all sorts of laws against drunk driving but the most effective answer has been arresting them. The law says you can’t smuggle across the border or enter the US illegally, that sure worked.
Your answers don’t address the actual problem- mentally ill people, a violence prone society and culture, a lack of respect for law and human life. But it’s easier to go after guns, isn;t it?
Rancid, I am in favor of every measure that will contribute to the end of gun violence in the nation. I am not opposed to having armed guards in schools, as long as we don’t kid ourselves into thinking that’s the end of the problem– remember, we’ve got movie theater shootings, mall shootings, parking lot shootings. (And no, I would not feel safer if all of my fellow citizens were armed, thanks!)
I just think its really ironic that people who want to cut school funding to the bone because taxes are just killing us are nevertheless willing to call for hiring tens of thousands of armed security guards for schools. So what happens when 20 children are mowed down at a public beach? Are we going to arm lifeguards.
Of course, it all looks good to the arms manufacturers.
“Your answers don’t address the actual problem- mentally ill people, a violence prone society and culture, a lack of respect for law and human life.”
Rancid, where have I said that I was opposed to working on the mental health end of the problem? Or the entertainment industry end of the problem? I just don’t want to leave the weapons side out, that’s all.
And think about it. Without a gun registry, what are you going to do with an enhanced mental health system? Unless you’re ready to hospitalize everyone who looks like they might possibly be a danger to themselves and others, you’ve got no way of knowing whether the guy who just told his shrink that he hears god’s voice telling him to kill, kill, kill might have a large arsenal at home that needed to be dealt with.
So let’s do it all. I just think armed guards in every wee elementary school in the nation has a mighty high price tag for the results it offers. And it is definitely not enough!
“And by the way, when the recent California shooting (and yes, I know, it was done with a shotgun) happened, their armed guard was at home, snowed in.”
I am not for the idea of armed guards in schools but this comment is interesting.
Just like you would have someone get a high capacity clip once they are banned sometimes the security guy is going to get stuck in the ditch. No one solution is going to be perfect. If we keep having these kinds of discussions we will not make any progress.
Crabtree, the laws aren’t being enforced and the NRA isn’t screaming bloody murder to make sure they are.
“If we keep having these kinds of discussions we will not make any progress.”
Right. We need to accept the fact that we need to pursue all possible solutions. In fact, maybe we need to stop calling what we’re after “solutions.” We need to pursue all possible measures that might help reduce gun violence.
Knuckle, who listens to the NRA? Really? Personally I think LaPierre is a giant douche bag. Unless you know the history of the NRA over the last 40 years or so you might think it’s all one big happy family. It’s not. There were gigantic splits in the NRA when they actually went pro-gun control a couple of times. We had a President that had to be impeached and booted. The NRA these days isn’t so much a gun rights organization as it is a cocktails and country club set lobbying organization for whatever will fill their coffers. It’s like any other union that got big, it eventually becomes a business unto itself. Anyway, so what? Who cares what NRA says? The media will never, ever give anything NRA says any credence, will they? It’s politics. NRA had a fabulous gun safety program called “Eddie Eagle” geared towards school age kids. It got rave reviews from various police agencies across the nation. What happened? It was barred from use in any school I know of because the NRA developed it. I know personally that attempts to use it in SLC were barred for that specific reason. Politics.
So who cares what NRA says. LaPierre could get up on stage, call for the confiscation and melting of every single gun in America, ban possession of ammo and commit hari-kari right there and the press would still pan it.It’s like having BP say they’ve improved spill safety 10000000%. No one will buy a word they say.
The good news is the NRA has gained about 1 million new members in the past 3 weeks. GOA, JFPF, etc have also gained a huge amount of members. With any luck maybe we can boot LaPierre and get things back on track.
Walker, when you start talking gun registration, confiscation, etc. you will meet resistance. The problem is you are punishing people who did NOTHING wrong. You know, I don’t own any “assault weapons” per se, but I;m not going to give an inch on this because this isn’t about “assault weapons” anymore. Now it’s about rifles, pistols, shotguns, ammo, magazines and whatever else you can throw into the mix. It’s just step 1. Step 2 will be handguns. Step 3 will be “sniper rifles” (scoped rifles). Step 4, who knows? I’ve never committed a crime with a gun, I’ve used one to defend myself several times as have many people I know. You want to limit my rights. It’s wrong. It doesn’t address the problem.
And yes, I’m all for putting any one that appears to be intent on harming himself or others in for a mental evaluation. We have a law in NY for that already!
“Walker, when you start talking gun registration, confiscation, etc. you will meet resistance.”
Gee, the government almost never meets resistance! Everyone pays their taxes cheerfully!
“The problem is you are punishing people who did NOTHING wrong.”
Are we punished by the requirement that we register our automobiles?
“I’m not going to give an inch on this…”
Good luck to you!
“It doesn’t address the problem.”
It’s not a complete solution to the problem. There is no complete solution to the problem. But there are measures that, taken together, would significantly reduce the problem. We need to take them all. One of those measures is registering firearms. It is not a punishment. It is common sense.
Kathy, You don’t have to call me Mr. Hall you can call me Ken. I observe that you elected to ignore my initial questions about patriotism and military service and jump directly to the conundrum of cosmology. Among other statements you said: ” Six centuries ago, there was no history to explain the universe. Two centuries ago, there was.”
Not true. There were thousands of years of history during which men of letters had attempted to accommodate what they observed transpiring in the motions of the Sun, moon and stars, via naked eyes, with the so called “word of god” in their bibles. A complex explanation for the observed motions was concocted with stars embedded in a large outer sphere which rotated relatively rapidly, while the planets were contained within smaller spheres that rotated more slowly with the Sun and moon inhabiting spheres that rotated much more rapidly, with the Sun moving at star speed. These ideas accommodated the belief that the Earth was at the centre of the universe with everything revolving around it thus fitting with religious beliefs of the time and which some folks likely believe similarly today.
The directives/laws of the church were formulated utilizing these concepts known as The Ptolemaic model of the universe from about 150 A.D.. Galileo constructed what is ostensibly the first known telescope by an Earthling and by observing the Universe through it he was able to improve upon the Sun centered planetary motion postulated by Nicolaus Copernicus (1473-1543) about 20 years befor he was born. Therefore the technology to make observations of the planets and stars “did exist” when Galileo brought forth his version of the Universe; however, this flew into the face of church dogma which culminated in his long term house arrest. Galileo would easily recognize the conservative resistance to change that he encountered as the same type of resistance POTUS Obama’s first and now second term in office has encountered; promulgated by those who view themselves as rightfully the real leaders of the US not some upstart black man put in office by a few liberal white Americans and the 47% who don’t pay taxes, by their reckoning. By the way included in that 47% are a great number of the junior enlisted folks that you claim to be so proud of.
“There is an under current agenda of veering off course from the intent of the Founders for this nation. Secular progressives, et al, wish to create a very different country than what was initially intended.”
I assume that you and your associates are convinced that you all know the “real” intent of the Founders and that the rest of us are out to lunch. As Galileo would have astutely observed you and yours are intent on ensuring that those with gold get to keep the gold and the rest of us can go pound sand.
I for one would find the “Living Constitution” that you find so abhorrent versus the political debauchery that has been taking place in Washington, especially since Reagan was POTUS the “light at the end of tunnel”
As to replacing the engine in a car with an exact same replacement I guess when I put a Chrysler Hemi in my 58 Chevy step side 1/2 ton back in the early 70’s, a friend I went to high school with put a 56 Olds engine in his 53 Mercury and another school mate I went to Canton ATI (now SUNY Canton) with put another 56 Olds engine in his 32 Ford Coupe we did not realize that we could not do such.
The underlying issue remains this: People are dying because they were exposed to the violence of a firearm.
Walker, fine, then lets register everything we own, lets demand background investigations and require you demonstrate a “need” for whatever you want. Lets add high taxes to everything and require you to carry insurance on everything. And lets do it by Executive Order and confiscate whatever is deemed illegal. How does that sit with you?
Alan, wrong. The underlying issue is people are dying at the hands of other people. Guns, knives, bombs, cars, rope, electricity, clubs, rocks, hands, whatever. The issue is that one group seeks to restrict another groups rights. When we start qualifying the exercising of our rights based on need, we topple over the edge into the abyss.
Ken, you can easily discern the Founders intentions by reading their writings in the Federalist Papers and other historical documents. It’s clear what their thoughts and intentions were.
“…fine, then lets register everything we own…”
Gee, you mean there’s no in between at all? Then weren’t we already there with automobile registration?
That’s a really weak argument for one of your apparent intelligence, Rancid.
“When we start qualifying the exercising of our rights based on need, we topple over the edge into the abyss.”
Rancid we toppled into that abyss back in 1934 with the passage of the National Firearms Act.
Rancid, You claim: “Ken, you can easily discern the Founders intentions by reading their writings in the Federalist Papers and other historical documents. It’s clear what their thoughts and intentions were.”
If the intentions of the “Founders” is so easily discernible why does the US Congress, US Supreme Court and POTUS have such a difficult time endeavoring to do so. It must be obvious to you that roughly 1/2 of the American populous interpret the “Founders” writings one way and the other 1/2 another. So much for clear thoughts and intentions for today. I will give you that the portion of the Colonial population to which the thoughts and intents of the “Founders” were primarily directed, (“rich white men”, no women, no slaves, no poor white men, no native Americans) likely found their writings pretty much in agreement with theirs since they were of kindred spirit.
Let me reiterate for you that which I previously directed to Kathy. The shenanigans which have been transpiring in the illustrious US Capitol since the first term of POTUS Obama, and continuing into his second, are a direct result of the descendants of the rich white men who are considered the “Founders” of the US, getting their panties all bunched up over the concept that “outsiders” are moving into positions of power and attempting to convert their “creator” given “unalienable rights” into “inalienable rights” guaranteed by law and thus subject to change. And horror of horrors to make things even worse the charge is being led by a “black” man. Talk about self evident, take a look at the racist overtones in the blather that the republicans are foaming at the mouth about when they speak about POTUS Obama. Listen to these congressional “leaders” as they speak of President Obama using any honorific title, or not, they can come up with, except President, not that the MSM does much better. Of course the real underlying reason for all of the frothing at the mouth is that old white men’s clubs of power and wealth are under attack and if there is one fundamental that drives conservatives, it is that those with the gold are those with the power and they are going to do everything they can to stave off the day when those, SOL folks, on the outside slither under the tent and start redistributing the power and the gold in a more equitable manner.
A lucid reading of the “Founders” musings will enlighten one as to the “those with the gold” mentality by which the “founding” documents were word smithed so as to ensure that the wealthy white men retained their wealth and power.