When do you block the Facebook ranters?
Sometimes you just have to wave good-bye. Photo: Newtown grafitti, Creative Commons, some rights reserved
This week, I “blocked” an old childhood acquaintance from Facebook. It was a sad moment, the severing of a meaningful thread that stretched back decades. But I find myself doing this more and more often lately.
It’s not because he posted crazy, muddled stuff. In 2014, you have to have a thick skin on-line.
I can handle “Obama is an “evil tyrant” and “Obamacare is part of the culture of death.” I can also slog through “Corporations have Borg-minded American democracy” or “Vaccines are poisoning our kids.”
I won’t deny that it’s wearying sometimes to always be starting conversations from a place of spluttering rage.
It’s exhausting when people re-post banners or cartoons or essays that are factually wrong, or years out of date, or repeatedly debunked. (I think everyone posting that stuff should be required to visit Snopes.com first.)
But I can handle even the worst nonsense, most of the time. And the truth is that I like having conversations with people who disagree with me. I grew up around a kitchen table where we argued cheerfully about everything.
Religion? Politics? It was all fair game and we learned early that disagreeing — even noisily — didn’t mean a lack of love or respect. A raucous dinner was a happy dinner.
The thing that has me shutting people off — “blocking,” in modern digital parlance — are the friends who post political or religious or cultural opinions without any desire for a response or a dialogue.
The guy I’m referencing in this case posted a cartoon suggesting that Barack Obama has moved to stifle dissent in America. The suggestion was that he was a harbinger of evil big government tyranny.
I responded at length, pointing out that Mr. Obama didn’t actually suggest anything of the sort in his speech [link here], which was — typically for our twice-elected president — a fairly safe, middle-of-the-road bit of political blather.
I pointed out that most tyrants don’t find themselves neck-deep in a divided government. They don’t step down peacefully after two terms, after being elected twice by popular majorities.
My acquaintance deleted my post and scolded me for replying to his “humorous” Facebook message with a serious political discussion. The bit where I quoted Mr. Obama’s actual speech, in context? He deleted that, too.
This isn’t the first such moment, where someone in my digital community has spluttered over Facebook and then been shocked — shocked! — when I or someone else actually responded.
Too many of us, I think, are shouting from the rooftops, expecting to hear nothing in response but an echo of our own rage, our own fear, our own prejudices.
It shouldn’t work like that. In my view, we should all absolutely be posting opinions to Facebook. Anything to dilute the constant stream of cat photos and “Fail” videos.
But then you should expect a response. You should want your community to think out loud about the problems you’ve identified.
It’s a sign of respect when people care about your concerns and fears deeply enough to respond and engage. And you should listen with an open mind to what the world says back.
This doesn’t mean your opinions have to change, but on occasion they just might. I’ve found my world view reshaped and informed again and again by passionate arguments on-line.
One final confession. I try to be as open-minded as I can and I love thinking about even the most out-there ideas.
But I’ve found myself lately reaching another cut-of point, another block-trigger, when some political ideas are so extreme, so nutty, that even in my “anything goes” notion of dialogue it’s just too crazy a starting point.
Last week, another Facebook friend posted an article suggesting that Mr. Obama is organizing a “Hitler youth” style program designed to indoctrinate American kids into his evil totalitarian ideology.
I started to type out a response and found myself shaking my head. I realized that it was time to say good-bye.
I love dialogue. I love the idea of my Facebook page being a kind of Speaker’s Corner. But sometimes the chasm of common sense is just too wide to shout across.
Tags: civility, social media
People take Facebook too seriously , The best thing to do is block Facebook itself ,after all most of the drama on there smells worse than the stuff we clean out of the barn ..
I will not allow myself to get hooked on Facebook.
I spend too much time on the Internet already.
Don’t Feel Bad,,,, I can only take so much Tea Bagging Bull poo too…
Facebook is a tool. Like most tools it can be used well or poorly and when used poorly it can be dangerous. People use FB for different purposes, and that’s great. I love pics of puppies and cat videos.
It is also a good reflection of society, if you have a wide and varied circle of “Friends”. I like to see the opinions of people who I vehemently disagree with, but I stay out of some discussions – believe it or don’t. I worry about the mental health of some of my Friends. I wish they would turn off their TV and look at more cat videos.
Note to Brian: your (link here) needs to be filled.
I have done the same thing. After a while it just gets too depressing to keep reading the same stuff over and over. Why do people feel free to post hateful stuff that I feel they would never say to you in person? I don’t mind opposing views that are thoughtful and not vitriolic but wonder if they think they’re changing anyone’s mind. I personally try to keep my political and religious views off of FB. They already know enough about me I’m sure.
Looking back over the things you have posted I doubt you would feel the same if his posts were directed at Bush, Ryan, Christie……
Like Jane W, I try to keep political or religious views off Facebook. Admittedly, I have only a small number of Facebook friends (22), all of whom I am frequently in touch with also by phone or face-to-face (ie, my Facebook friends are actually “friends”). I use it primarily to keep in touch with those friends, to share humorous stories or photos, etc. I also use it to check in on businesses or organizations who have moved to Facebook (some of whom no longer have a web page as a result).
If any of my friends were to stray into the political, religious or otherwise contentious arena on Facebook (so far almost no one ever has), I would politely ask them (in person or by phone) to refrain from doing so and, if that didn’t work, I would block them and continue my friendship with them in the old-fashioned way.
There are two classes of “friends” that I “unfollow” on Facebook. The ones who tell me more than I want to know in terms of intimate details and those who rant endlessly about stuff they get all excited over without ever checking to see if it is really true (it usually isn’t). I haven’t “unfriended” anyone yet but there are a handful whose posts don’t appear in my newsfeed. Occasionally I go to their wall and check to see what’s happening, skim over the nutty stuff and sometimes make a comment about something non-nutty they have posted. Face book is, or at least can be, a good way to stay in touch with people I care about to one degree or another so I’m not about to drop off it entirely.
My policy with Facebook and Twitter is simple. I will follow anyone who follows me and I will be a friend of anyone who wants to be my friend.
That said, I hardly ever go to Facebook or Twitter to read anything that is posted. What I post is usually a photo or something else I find interesting.
Frankly, I wonder about the value of Facebook and Twitter except for businesses and organizations looking for a cheap way to advertise. I use both for that purpose.
What is really beyond my understanding is how Facebook, Twitter and many others actually make any money. I’ve never given any of them a dime and I’ve never clicked on a link on any of them to buy anything.
As far as “staying in touch” with anyone I want to stay in touch with, nothing works better than a voice phone call or a meeting in person.
These are good points. I just basically dropped out of facebook several years ago. I still have an account and I keep up with about 20 family members that way, otherwise no.
The deeper issue I find is that so much of facebook for people over 40 such as myself, is that it is essentially backward looking. I don’t hang out with my high school buddies of 30 years ago for a reason, I don’t want to go back I like looking forward. But as Brian says it is like an echo chamber, the political posts are just regenerating things people have already said, there is not thought.
I like facebook because it keeps me connected in a small way with people from different times and places in my life. I think it’s the friends-of-friends feature that makes me feel like I know what is going on in far flung places.
I try to respond only to correct factual errors, such as details about climate change, and I tend to ignore ranters. It’s depressing to be bombarded by uninformed opinion, but I find I can handle it better if I don’t engage. The only person I have cut off was someone who got really angry and started calling me names.
I know there is a serious problem with people basically curating and customizing their news to only see opinions they like. This is not going to make our country any more coherent or unified, but at the same time there is an alternate reality building among Conservatives that isolates them from the rest of the world.
We now have two of their mascots (Cliven Bundy and the Duck Dynasty guy) openly saying black people were better off under slavery. The Benghazi obsession over 4 deaths is a huge deal to them, 4,000+ soldier deaths in Iraq and a multi-trillion dollar war based on false pretenses is forgotten. I see to older baby boomers who worked government jobs with perfect health care their whole lives rail against government unions and the Affordable Care act.
The problem is that nobody gets their opinion changed over social media. The second problem is that people who buy into Right Wing media end up humiliated if they try and debate people in the real world. Basically if somebody friends me that I am probably never going to see again in life, and all they do is post right wing nutbaggery, I unfriend them instantly. I have no interest in moderating a debate between my gay friends and some ranting dimwit I happened to go to high school with who likens them to people who sexually molest animals. Right wing media is like death metal for the elderly.
In addition a innumerable boring and pointless Facebook posts, in the last month or so, through Facebook I
discovered that an old friend whom believed was dead was alive, happy, and healthy. We have now resumed the dialogs about family and world events that we enjoyed years ago;
Read the inspirational posts of a high school friend who has stage 4 breast cancer, but fights on and lives her her life with joy;
argueand discuss with a friend I who agree with each other about many topics (Russia, US politics) and disagree about others (the existence of God, the Adirondack Rail-trail) ;
stay in touch with the thoughts, moods, and pet pictures of my daughter in grad school between our weekly phone calls.
My other daughter and I were able to share photos and stories of the cross-country trip we took last fall. Our friends “likes” and comments added to our enjoyment of the trip.
As Knuck said, “Facebook is a tool. Like most tools it can be used well or poorly and when used poorly it can be dangerous. – “
“Right wing media is like death metal for the elderly. – ”
Awesome.
To me, it usually has less to do with what they say than how (and how often) they say it.
I have lots of good debates with social conservatives, gun lovers, libertarians and others who are very different politically.
The people I tend to block (and I think it’s only been about 4 or 5 over the years) have been trolls. You know, the people who will nit pick the most minor details of my opinions but don’t have the cajones to actually express one of their one. When you criticize what is presumably their opinion, they hold up their hands and say with fake angelicism, “I never said that.” If you’re boorish, I can deal with that because at least it’s honest. Passive-aggressive behavior infuriates me.
In fact, some of the most bitter tirades have been launched against me by people who generally agree with me on most things and are infuriated when I dare disagree with them on something. These are the people who view politics as highly tribal and, as much as they hate GW Bush, they apply his maxim if that if you’re not with me 100% of the time, you’re against me. I view politics as ideological and moral. I think the left is correct much more often than the right… but not always. Some people can’t deal with that. Some also have trouble dealing with the fact that I’m very much against the Democratic Party. They think I should support it because I’m a progressive. In fact, that’s the very reason I oppose it.
I have been told by some of my right-wing friends to stop “replying all” with links or refutations to their wild or erroneous emails — I simply respond: If you don’t want me to dispute your emails, don’t send them to me. I’m usually surprised at how long it takes for them to figure that out.
I’ve only had to delete two friends on Facebook both for political reasons.
One I’m not sure why I was friends with in the first place. He friend requested and I say yes. The second was an old college friend. He would write the most horrible things about Republicans, things so horrible I can’t mention. And he lumped the entire party into one. A couple times I would respond and he would respond with, “F*$# You, you’re an idiot.” And it hurt. I didn’t and still don’t understand how someone’s political differences can turn someone into such a mean person.
I really enjoy Facebook. I love memes and I love sharing wit and seeing pictures.
Brian: Bravo. I have long stopped responding to serious emotionally charged Facebook postings/rants. All it does is elevate my blood pressure. If I could be so bold as to quote the Facebook meme…”Your Facebook status really made me change my political views. Said no one ever.” That more often than not sums up the chances of changing the mind of someone who posts such things in earnest.
I do, however, more often than not, post a link to sources (usually more than one) that, usually in less than 30 seconds, totally debunk the rant. And I leave it at that.
The one advantage of Facebook over anonymous posting places, such as North Country This Week’s “Sound Off” call-in page, is that the writer cannot hide easily escape to anonymity.
Keep up the good work.
Mike
I don’t block facebook ranters. Because I’m not on facebook. Saves a lot of time.
I’ve never had to unfriend anyone on Facebook. Not many of my friends have views diametrically opposed to mine, and I mostly ignore their political posts and they mostly ignore mine. I did have one discussion with a fb “friend” that I really don’t know that started out pretty contentious, but we found a bit of common ground after half a dozen exchanges. I wish that sort of thing happened more often!
I try to limit my posts about politics and religion, and I find most people do the same. I follow a number of leftish pages, and I find that most of the discussions on them are pretty sad– either preaching to the choir or fact-free rants.
As for Facebook generally, I find it pretty interesting, but it is for sure easy to waste time there!
facebook is nothing about finding out what others think about what you post. facebook is all about the person’s site to whom it belongs, and they will tell you what they think.
“this is what I’m doing,saying going,buying selling,eating,looking at,saw,wanna see..”
it has nothing to bo with what you may think about any of it, just click on the ” likes it ” and move on.
its a billboard, not a phone call.
Brian,
Isn’t this blog doing the same thing as Facebook, or any other forum on a website? Many of my friends no longer participate in the NCPR blogs for the precise reasons you blocked your former Facebook friend – no real conversation. Lots of screaming and ranting, but no real exchange of ideas. Isn’t the bigger question about listening? Why do ranters need to rant so much, unless it’s because they aren’t heard elsewhere in their lives. Do we listen anymore? Do we respect an opinion different from our own? Sadly, even on this forum, there’s lots of personal abuse. It should have no place here. Debunk the idea, not the author. Respect “my worthy opponent”!
Well Facebook or any social media is not the same as true interaction, true relationship. It is good for keeping in touch and I don’t want to denigrate that. On this site I do learn things about issues I did not know and I like that. But I think I don’t listen as I normally would. It’s like that classic narcissistic feeling that mainly listening just means waiting until you can talk again.
David Duff hit the nail on the head! I would add one additional thing that many people today are so defensive of their political views that “tolerance” is non-existent. Why is it so necessary for people to feel the need to defend and attack? I have never changed the political views of another person nor has anyone ever changed mine. To some my posts may seem like I’m attacking. In reality I enjoy rattling cages and watching the responses!
Gary, “To some my posts may seem like I’m attacking. In reality I enjoy rattling cages and watching the responses!”
I think that is a little different than, “I like to present information that challenges people’s preconceived ideas.”
I’ve learned a little from my dog. He’s up for anything; you want to play, he’ll play, you want a fight, he’ll fight.
Gary Says:
“I have never changed the political views of another person nor has anyone ever changed mine.”
One wonders if he has bothered to consider that. Was he really brainwashed as a kid and has never learned to leave the comfort zone of his confidently knowing exactly what all truths are?
That says a lot about America today, doesn’t it? Check your ability to reason at the door – you already know everything.
I’ve been here lately because it has had LESS controversial discussions, not more. I don’t know if I’ve changed anyone’s mind; probably not. But I do, or did, find the discussions interesting and challenging, forcing me to stretch my mind, which I enjoy. I also learned a lot from the majority of posters who present reasoned and supported arguments.
I think it is unfortunate that, as is so often the case, we allow ourselves to be bullied and dominated by the least reasonable among us. The best, and most effective consequence for such people and posts is to be ignored.
Regarding Facebook rants, when I reply to an unreasonable one I generally am not trying to win an arguments with the poster. He is probably beyond reason. Rather, I am hoping to connect with the dozens or so mutual “friends” who will read both, and may open to reasonable, fact-based discussion.
Also, frankly, I often like to piss the ranters off. So sue me.
I’ve had my opinions changed on FB and Twitter. For example, I recently wrote on Twitter that I wanted to prepare my daughters for the dangers of sexual assault in college, through taking self-defense courses and talking about being safe and so on. And wow, did a number of women jump all over me, telling me it wasn’t their responsibility, or mine, to guard against sex-abusing men, it was the responsibility of the sex-abusing men not to behave that way, and the responsibility of society to stop them.
So, yes, I still want to prepare my daughters to defend themselves, if necessary. But I saw the point of the women who jumped all over me. It is not the responsibility of the victim to avoid being attacked. That is not a burden they should have to bear. We should be teaching our sons not to attack in the first place.
I’m sorry, Will, but the argument of the women who jumped on you is fundamentally silly (and a wonderful example of left-wing silliness, all to rare in today’s world!).
It is fine to say that potential offenders should bear the responsibility for their actions. They should.
But to say that this absolves individuals and their loved ones from taking measures to protect themselves in the world is profoundly irrational. All the activism and education in the world will not prevent some humans, especially males, from acting in a predatory manner. To say otherwise is very much like saying that it is the responsibility of coyotes, not I, not to come into my yard and snatch my pets. We need to understand the world as it is, and do what we must to protect people and things legitimately important to us. Working for change important, but secondary.
The really crazy people are on the national media comment sections. Its depressing for example to read the comments after any CNN article. It just makes you wonder how many people who seem normal are walking around with bundled anger and hate toward many groups or people and just waiting to vomit all of that out on the internet. Some of the comments are remarkably savage.
Well, I don’t think the coyotes and men analogy quite fits. I agree with you, Newt, which is one reason my daughter and I have gone to ju-jitsu classes for the past three years. And yet, the women who jumped all over me are right, too, I think. Self-defense classes don’t necessarily work. Things won’t really change until the cultural deterrents are strong enough to stop sexual assaults, and men are raised not to commit this crime, and society stops tolerating it (Ben Roethlisberger).
I am amazed at how much our society has evolved into ‘believe what I want to believe, forget the facts.’ thinking.
Scary actually.
You can’t pour tea into a closed cup, and at the risk of preaching to the choir, might as well, cut the naysayers off.