Shooting in Herkimer leaves four dead, at least two injured
Update, 8:00 p.m.: Local media report no change in a standoff in Herkimer, where police this afternoon surrounded an abandoned building believed to hold Kurt Meyers, 64, of Mohawk, suspected in shootings this morning that killed four and injured two in Herkimer and Mohawk..
At a 5 p.m.press conference, State Police Superintendent Joseph D’amico said troopers wanted no further casualties, and were in “no rush” to bring the standoff to a conclusion. D’amico identified the four killed as 68 year-old Harry Montgomery of Herkimer, Michael Rancier, 57, also of Herkimer, Thomas Stefka, and Michael Renshaw, who D’amico said was a 2o-year veteran corrections officer.
At the press conference, Gov. Andrew Cuomo described the two communities as “peaceful, quiet” places, “where you could say, ‘this could never happen here.'”
Several nearby school districts were on lockdown today. Shortly after 6 p.m., WBIX radio station, which had been reporting live from the scene all day, reported that Herkimer parents were being allowed to pick up children if they came in person with photo identification. The Utica Dispatch reported all students had been dismissed by 8 p.m.
Update, 5:05 p.m.: State police say the stand-off with suspected Herkimer shooter Kurt Meyers continues at this hour. Multiple police agencies are gathered outside an abandoned building, where shots were fired earlier. Speaking at State Police Barracks in Herkimer, Gov. Andrew Cuomo calls the situation there “very bleak.” He said police have identified “no apparent motive” at this time. The governor praised the multiple police agencies involved in the ongoing standoff. He warned people in the vicinity to stay in their homes.
Update, 3:40pm: Here’s a link to a photo of the suspect, Kurt Meyers, provided by state police.
Update, 2:54pm: State police and Gov. Cuomo are expected to speak presently. Watch here: (live video has ended)
Update, 2:40pm: WIBX reporter on the scene in Herkimer says he was moved by police “because he was in the line of fire”. Then the reporter said he saw bullet holes in two nearby cars, presumably caused by shots fired from a building the police have surrounded.
Meanwhile, our friends at WRVO have posted a site where you can watch the press conference of Gov. Cuomo and state police when it happens. That site is here.
Update, 2:30pm: WIBX reporting live that they are hearing more gunshots right now at a stand-off with police in downtown Herkimer. According to the reporter, police were communicating with the suspect through a bullhorn.
Update, 1:30pm: Governor Cuomo and state police will give a press conference in half an hour. Meanwhile, local media are reporting gunshots in Herkimer:News Radio 950 WIBX@WIBXnews tweets: “Snipers remain on top of the Herkimer Evening telegram building. 5-6 gunshots in the last minute and a half #herkimercoshootings“. WIBX reporting from the scene live.
Update, 12:36pm: The Utica Observer-Dispatch and WKTV are reporting Mohawk police chief has identified the suspected shooter as 64 year-old Kurt Meyers. Police say he is armed and dangerous and has yet to be apprehended.
According to the Governor’s office, Andrew Cuomo is on his way to Herkimer.
Update, 11:52 The Utica Observer-Dispatch tweets that police “may have located the shooter who killed 4 and injured 2 in Herkimer, Mohawk. SWAT and helicopter converging on Herkimer jewelry store.” (@UticaOD). They’ve updated that story here, here’s what they’re saying (as of 11:38)
Police may have located the shooter responsible for killing four people and injuring two others in Herkimer and Mohawk today.
Swat teams and a police helicopter have converged on Freddy’s Jewelers, located next to Glory Days, on Main Street in Herkimer. It appears police believe the suspect may be in the building.
Meanwhile, WKTV reports the following:
Initial reports stated a suspect fled the shooting scenes in a red jeep with a black top. According to radio transmissions, the vehicle was located shortly after 10 a.m. in Herkimer, but the suspect, said to be in possession of a long gun, was still on the loose.
Shortly before 11 a.m., eyewitnesses said there was a large police presence at an apartment on North Main Street in Herkimer, with guns drawn.
Initial reports had the suspect fleeing the shooting scene in a red jeep with a black top.
***
Gaffy’s Car Wash, on Mohawk St. in Herkimer, was the scene of one of the shooting incidents. Photo: Google Street View.
Shootings in the Herkimer County town of Herkimer (and across town lines in Mohawk) has left four people dead and at least two injured this morning. The Utica Observer-Dispatch offers a good account of the shootings.
Firefighters also battled a possibly-related structure fire at a building in Mohawk, that reports indicated was where the suspect lived. The cause of the fire is still under investigation, but police were seen removing a dozen long guns (the suspect used a long gun in the shooting) from the building just before 11:00 am.
The Albany Times-Union reports police are still searching for the suspect in the shootings. (This article also has a running Twitter feed on the shooting for up-to-the-minute news; it’s right on top of the page.)
Here’s a description, from the Observer-Dispatch:
Reports indicate police are searching for a 50- to 60-year-old slender white male, about 5-foot-11, with white hair and a white beard, last seen wearing a flannel shirt.
The suspect shot and killed two people this morning at a car wash in Herkimer, and two more at a barbershop in the village of Mohawk. Herkimer Community College and local schools are in lockdown.
We’ll update this story as it develops.
Gosh! Another gun crime!
There is no such thing as “gun crime”. The suspect also used a red jeep in the commission of this crime, so why not call it “jeep crime”? I know; that won’t get anyone riled up enough. Sad that everyone immediately focuses on the suspect’s choice of tools.
“Police say he is armed and dangerous and has yet to be apprehended.”
So Larry, you figure he’s just dangerous, not “armed and dangerous”?
If dynamite could still be bought at your local hardware store, like back in the day, and a lot of people were being killed accidentally and on purpose by clumsy and malevolent handling of the stuff, you would argue that there was no such thing as dynamite crime? And no point in controlling its sale?
Let’s see, by extension, there’s no such thing as computer crime, or mail fraud, or wire theft.
I’m sure all of these deaths would have happened anyway, using knives, hammers, rocks and clubs:
Today’s Gun Report
Governor Cuomao is doing all he can to keep arms ownership with in sane parameters. This is what happens when firearms go wild and unregulated. A gun free country is a safe country.
So why didn’t our strict gun control laws make a difference.
The Governor has rushed to make a statement…despite the fact that we know nothing about this crime or it’s motivations. This has “opportunist” written all over it. So far, it seems like NONE of the proposed gun legislation would have stopped this crime, but I’m willing to at least wait until the situation is ended.
Larry, don’t be ridiculous. It’s definitely easier to for an old man to kill with a gun than, say, a pointy stick.
“So why didn’t our strict gun control laws make a difference.”
Was that a serious question?
I sure hope not.
I wonder if the Governor will try to tell the law enforcement people what they can say or not say…
Ridiculous? Let’s outlaw old men AND guns, we’ll be so much safer.
“So why didn’t our strict gun control laws make a difference?”
Two words: Pennsylvania and Virginia.
We need laws at the Federal level, enforced in all states, before any real good can be accomplished. This is one of those areas where the republican (small-r, as in republic) model doesn’t work so well.
How ridiculous to think strict gun laws will end shootings . As if criminals r going to buy guns legally. If a criminal wants to commit a crime he will find the tools to do it. It will just make it harder for the law abiding citizen wanting to protect themselves to get one.
Walker ur views r as dangerous as the criminals. Lets just rely on govt to protect us and tell us what to do. Don’t blink because before u know it they will control everything u do and of course they know what’s best for everyone don’t they?
And Nelson or tinker bell wake up. Do u really think u can have a gun free world? When someone breaks into ur home and threatens ur family or life . Yes with the illegal gun how will u protect itself. Oh yes don’t worry the police will get there in time and save the day.
We’ll have to wait to see who this old coot is and what his problem might be. If he was crazy, we can blame it on that; If he’s a convicted felon, we’ll all be able to shake our heads and say” I told ya so”; If he used an automatic weapon, folks will say “That’s what causes these things to happen”; and if he’s on drugs we can blame that….
But what if none of these things are true? What if he’s a cranky old fart who has nothing to do but bitch about the system? What if he’s just finished his morning ritual with some right wing radio host, and just isn’t gonna take it anymore? What if he’s been pissed off at work for a long time now, and that one guy opened his big mouth for the last time.
The trouble is, folks have forgotten how to talk, how to sort out their problems, and how to get along. The precious “right to bear arms” is one granted to CITIZENS, not angry malcontents, not phobic haters, and not revolutionaries.
If you want the rights guaranteed to citizens, you have to practice civics.
He used a shotgun. From what I’ve read so far, he didn’t have a criminal or mental health history other than a DWI in 1973. Unless you’re in favor of banning all guns or a strict licensing regime for shotguns like you have with pistols, I don’t think there’s a law that would’ve stopped this. It’s tragic, but sometimes bad things happen and there isn’t a legislative solution to them.
No there always is a solution, we need to stomp our feet and blame someone and then pass laws and all feel better.
There is a solution. There are lots of places in this world where this type of thing is nearly unheard of. If you can look at this story and think there isn’t something really wrong within our society you are part of the problem and you need to start thinking about things from a different perspective.
He was using a gun that was legal under the safe act and it was nice that the govener came down to say I told you so . Funny there was just as many car deaths from high speed and drunk driving in about the same time period haven’t heard a word about taking keys from mentality unstable drivers and drunk drivers who have already lost there lisences . These type of accidents have affected my life over a dozen times and have lost friends I’ve also lost 2 friends one self inflicted from weapons but I have never heard the government talk about reducing the number of cylinders people can drive adding devises to inshure no drunk people can drive any car . And people do not need in my opinion to drive over 30 miles an hour it might cost our society in time but would save tens of thousand s of lives and if you argue with that your just not thinking of the children. So if saving lives are the issue and not that your just scared of evil firearms let get serious and address all the things that kill people .
PS I can’t believe the ethnic community isn’t more outraged by the obvious racism that all the officials basically say they are not responsible enough like rural white America and cannot be trusted with firearms.
John, these car/gun analogues just don’t wash. You don’t need a gun to get to work or to buy groceries. And while your 30 mpg analogue works a little better, it’s still a serious stretch to compare it to regulating guns.
Tell you what, though, I’d settle for regulating guns the same way we regulate cars: mandatory registration and insurance.
Trying to whip a race debate is always a good idea, right?
Last time I checked we had a whole book full of laws pertaining to who can drive; age, medical conditions, skills, etc; what we can drive, how fast we can drive it, etc; and the operating condition of the vehicle. Not to mention the registration and insurance.
It is time that gun owners recognize the fact that there need to be better controls on weapons and there will be better controls weapons.
Yeah, the last time I checked we had a book full of laws aimed at regulating every aspect of our lives and protecting us from things we can’t be protected from, all at the expense of personal liberty and absolving everyone from personal responsibility. We’ve become an effete, morally corrupt society, thanks largely to the liberal philosophy that permeates every aspect of our lives.
“Effete?” Does owning a gun make you feel like more of a man?
Do you even know what “liberty” means? What about the personal liberty of hundreds of children shot to death every year in this country.
And don’t think I didn’t notice that you tried to deflect the point just as John tried to deflect the point about guns by making a bad analogy to car deaths. I answer the point about automobiles and you try to conflate personal liberty with being a macho man, which is of course a laughable proposition.
Effete people have personal liberty; women have personal liberty; children have personal liberty; and one of the most important personal liberties is that none of those people need to abide by your definition of what personal liberty is.
Larry, it sure sounds like it’s time for you to move. Life for you here in this corrupt land must be utterly miserable. If I felt like that, I’d be looking for somewhere else to live.
KHL,
You ought to get out the dictionary yourself, before you start lecturing people about definitions.
Walker,
All is not lost; more and more people are coming to see the corrupt liberal philosophy for what it really is.
Okay, so now I’m really pissed off. Larry, we have a serious problem in this country and because of you and people like you who have really backward ideas we can’t resolve them.
“Morally corrupt”? Are you calling me and people like me morally corrupt? We are the people who fight for the rights of minorities, women, gays and lesbians, transgender — and I don’t give a damn what you think about the morals of those people; they don’t have to answer to you. Are you calling me morally corrupt when I have been among those who have been fighting people with backward ideas who want to be “free” to leave loaded guns around the house so their kids can shoot themselves, who want to be “free” to pollute the environment, who want to be “free” to accumulate virtually all the wealth of the country?
When are you and people like you going to recognize that your simplistic understanding of the world doesn’t mesh with reality? John Wayne was a fake. The reality is that liberals have been right on issues such as wars in Vietnam and Iraq, Global Warming, and a wide variety of human rights. We have been right on the financial mess that “free-market” types created. We are right on the direction to balance the budget while not crushing the economy.
And we are right that there needs to be better control of deadly weapons that have flooded our nation. Time for you to start working with us to fix things instead of calling people names.
You know, I’m also sick and tired of all the stupid automobile anaolgies, which are easy to parrot but carry no weight when actually thought about. In the first place, I’m not aware that ANY type of automobile is banned. There’s no restriction on size, horsepower, speed capability, fuel economy or weight, all things that might be regulated or prohibited in the name of a safer, more responsible society. I’m also not aware of any restrictions on automobile ownership: there’s no limit on how many vehicles one can own; felons, the mentally ill, people who are the subject of restraining orders and even those convicted of “automobile crimes” can own and be licensed to operate automobiles, except is some very extreme circumstances. In some states automobile insurance isn’t mandatory or enforced and many states have done away with safety inspections. There are rules related to safe operation and penalties for unlawful automobile use, and I’m all for that.
So, if we agree with all the liberals who want guns to be treated like automobiles, we will have to agree to the following:
No restriction on the type, purpose, configuration, capabilities or number of guns one can own.
No restriction on who can own guns (anyone with a driver’s license).
No restrictions on usage, i.e., open or public carry should be allowed.
State by state regulations on safety, insurance and registration provisions.
“Must issue” provisions for licensing (as per driver’s licenses).
How does that sound?
Again Larry doesn’t address any specific issues in his 8:47 post. Everyone can see what is going on here.
And in his 9:12 post he once again tries to deflect the issue. The issue was never about automobiles the issue is about guns and people who use guns to kill other people.
OK, KHL, blame it all on conservatives. We’re the problem, right? All conservatives are simplistic, homophobic bigots who steal bread from the poor and oppress minorities. Liberals know the way and it’s the only way, right? It’s precisely that soi-disant (look that one up too, while you’re searching for the meaning of effete) moral certitude that marks some liberals for what they are: self-appointed arbiters of right and wrong who will do or say anything to advance their own philosophy and who are often unwilling or unable to understand opposing viewpoints. You might get more traction if you stopped telling the rest of the world how stupid they are and how smart you are, especially when the evidence indicates otherwise.
Isn’t it deflecting the issue to continue making the automobile analogy as Walker (and others) have done? Why do you object to my response? I’m now in agreement with him and others who have made the same analogy.
“Again Larry doesn’t address any specific issues in his 8:47 post. Everyone can see what is going on here.”
OK, here’s a specific issue re my 8:47 post: your comments concerning my use of the word “effete” were misguided, incorrect and, finally, comical. They betray your lack of understanding of the word and unwillingness to look it up. Your subsequent comments indicate a lack of reading comprehension as well. You should be sure of what people are saying before you object to it.
What was going on was an attempt on my part to be polite while also objecting to your insinuation that I don’t know what liberty means. I ought to be careful before making that mistake again.
First, Larry, I didn’t start the car analogy, I was responding to all the gun advocates who like to say “Cars kill people, so we should outlaw all cars.”
Second, if you’re willing to allow as much regulation of firearms as cars are subject to, we’re home free. The number of regulations dealing with auto safety and emission standards is substantial, covering everything from bumper height and crashworthiness to seatbelts, air bags and laminated windshields. And let’s not forget the CAFE standards. Of course, with each new regulation, the industry cried that it would bankrupt them, and “freedom” advocates swore that it was the end of freedom. Now, of course, they’re all taken for granted.
So let’s apply an equivalent amount of safety regulation to firearms AND require registration and insurance. Problem solved.
Walker,
I didn’t say you started it; you were just the most recent poster who mentioned it. Be careful what you wish for: there is no restriction on automobile type (a gigantic SUV is the automotive equivalent of an assault rifle), licenses are granted on a “must issue” basis and there are no restrictions on usage, i.e. full carry is permitted. I’m in!
I dunno, Larry, I’d say that the equivalent of an assault rifle is a monster trucks, most of which are too big to be street legal. And licenses are “must issue” only if you’re 18, and you haven’t had your license revoked. And that license is for you, not the car. To get the car licensed, you have to show proof of insurance.
I still think I could get comfortable applying the amount of automobile regulation to firearms.