Morning Read: Seven new casinos for New York? Want one in the Adirondacks?

The backrooms in Albany are abuzz this morning.  A big change coming our way could be the construction of up to seven Vegas-style casinos in New York state.  This from the Plattsburgh Press-Republican.

Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver and Senate Majority Leader Dean Skelos raced toward agreement on the governor's priorities.

Silver predicted that New York will soon have as many as seven new casinos under a constitutional amendment that must be approved this year and next year by the Legislature.

"All it's going to have is a maximum of seven," Silver said. "We'll deal with where, when and how next year."

Cuomo and Silver, however, oppose having a casino in Manhattan.

Cuomo wanted to expand casinos off Indian reservations as an economic development tool.

An Adirondack casino?

Depending on their location, this could have a huge impact on the Akwesasne-Mohawk community, which relies on the casino in Franklin County as a major revenue stream.

This will require amending the state Constitution, so it's hardly a done deal, but Jim Odato reports in the Albany Times-Union that New York is poised to become of the nation's big gambling states.

If seven new casinos were allowed, New York would have more gambling halls than many states. The total would include five existing Indian casinos — three run by the Seneca tribe in Western New York, a Mohawk casino along the Canadian border and the Oneida Nation’s Turning Stone facility in Verona — plus nine racinos at horse tracks in New York including the one at Saratoga harness facility where Division of the Lottery slot terminals are installed.

What do you think?  Is gambling the future for New York — a great new source of revenue?  Is it time that the state compete with neighbors, including Canada, that have already embraced the casino culture? Should we have one in the Adirondacks?

Or is gambling an ugly social ill?

And what about the impact on the Akwesasne community?  Your comments welcome.

Tags: , , ,

45 Responses to “Morning Read: Seven new casinos for New York? Want one in the Adirondacks?”

Leave a response
  1. Ken Hall says:

    "is gambling an ugly social ill?"

    For profit gambling; HELL YES !!!

    Is there a more lucrative endeavor (for the owners) which provides zero real output?

    Is there a more lucrative endeavor to convert middle class humans into poor humans and poor humans into absolutely destitute humans which provides zero real output?

    Is there a more lucrative endeavor with which states effectively reduce the tax "burden" on the uber rich by tricking the poor into making up the difference?

    Governor Andrew Mark Cuomo, New York's uber rich best bet to keep their taxes at a minimum, wants New York to jump head over heels into gambling to help fund the state's "eye on the future" projects on the backs of the poor and middle income folks. Most popular Governor in any state; why?

    Anyone have a problem with penny ante poker in the parlor? Neither do I; but, the state of NY does and can prosecute if it desires.

    Popular. Like/Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 9

  2. Walker says:

    Definitely an ugly social ill.

    (Though Ken, the answer to "Is there a more lucrative endeavor to convert middle class humans into poor humans and poor humans into absolutely destitute humans which provides zero real output?" could be yes, the slicing and dicing loan repackagers of Wall St make casino operators look like amateurs.) But casino operators are right up there.

    Popular. Like/Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 4

  3. Pete Klein says:

    I vote for a casino in Indian Lake.
    A college would be nice too.

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 10 Thumb down 8

  4. PNElba says:

    As the governor has pointed out…..NY has been in the gambling business for decades. Ever wait in line at Stewart's while some person buys 50 dollars worth of lottery tickets? Ever go to a local club and watch someone search for a winning "scratch off" ticket? Bingo, Indian casinos, "casino nights", 50/50 clubs etc. Let's make gambling legal or make it illegal, but please make a decision one way or the other.

    Popular. Like/Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 1

  5. Jim Bullard says:

    To quote a line from The Farmer Boy by Laura Engles "You get a run for your money but I'd rather get something more substantial for my money".

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 8 Thumb down 6

  6. Kathy says:

    To quote a line from Field of Dreams, "If you build it he will come".

    That's the problem, right? So all the convenience stores will make a little extra money. And maybe some motels/hotels will get some business.

    Outside of that?

    But things are not good. When I hear an idea to turn the St. Lawrence Center Mall in Massena into a community college .. oh dear.

    The Adirondack area must be preserved. We need to put our ideas and money into supporting its beauty. The way the economy is going, day trips and vacations within NY State may be the way people end up going for some R&R.

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 4 Thumb down 8

  7. OnewifeVetNewt says:

    What? Sorry, I was just checking my March Madness standings. Go Vermont!
    I remember "Gram", a very sweet lunch lady who, every couple of months would take a bus down to Atlantic City with her pals and drop, or sometimes win, a couple of hundred bucks. Last time I heard, she still had her house, furniture, and car.
    Might be nice to keep some her money in the park.

    Here's what we need. At age twenty-one, everyone who wants one gets an "adult privileges" card that allows them to drink, gamble, (and, in an ideal world, purchase and consume marijuana). Abuse one or more, and, like driving, you go to court and lose the privilege. And leave the rest of us the hell alone.

    Meanwhile, build the casino. In Tupper, maybe, if they want it. But would all those millionaires who are going to buy Great Campettes go for it?

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 6 Thumb down 8

  8. It's Still All Bush's Fault says:

    Casinos are a great idea. No one is forced to go there and gamble.

    There are always going to be people who will use their paycheck to gamble, drink and smoke instead of buying food for their family or paying the mortgage. That is their decision to make and no one should have the right to tell them they can't.

    The casinos can often be a great place for food and entertainment.

    Popular. Like/Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 8

  9. stillin says:

    Of course! Why work for money, or try….just go to the casino's!!!! You'll win, you know you will..and how pretty they fit in with the environment. In fact, let's just build them onto our public school buildings so the little ones can get a nice taste early. Yea…that's the way!!!!

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 8 Thumb down 9

  10. TomL says:

    Here is a nice example of how New York State legalized gambling (quickdraw lotto) financially ruined a person in the North Country (supermodel Maggie Rizer), with the interesting angle that the Mayor of Watertown enabled Rizer's stepfather at blowing her earnings on lotto:
    http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/11672/

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6

  11. How about cutting back on Corrections Officers and State Police (that are afraid to go after the real criminals) to save hoards of New York State tax payer's money!!! Let's pray on the middle class some more to support the rich that don't pay their fair share of taxes to begin with!!! The worst thing you could have is the government promoting gambling!! I thought the New York State lottery was supposed to fund education, look at the financial mess our schools are in now, where has all that money gone???

    Popular. Like/Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 7

  12. tootightmike says:

    If we're gonna build them, lets put them near the borders so we can bilk the neighbors, but not in the Adirondacks…never.
    I'm old enough to remember that New York State's lottery was going to be used to solve all of our schools financial needs….so, how's that working out?

    Popular. Like/Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 4

  13. And what about the impact on the Akwesasne community? Yah, it is the biggest drug infested community around, great choice as an example! Is it still open, or has there been another uprising closing it's borders again??!!

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 6 Thumb down 10

  14. tootightmike says:

    Brian! Just the suggestion that we might put one in the Adirondacks makes me want to smack you. Talk about ugly development! Talk about sprawl, about inappropriate land use, and about inconsistent message!
    Maybe they should build one at the top of Katahdin…it's a great destination.

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7

  15. larry peck says:

    yas we need more casinos

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 8 Thumb down 4

  16. knuckleheadedliberal says:

    The casino market is already showing signs of being saturated.

    Let the Indians have one thing, just one stinking thing for a change and let's start trying to be the Empire State again.

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3

  17. Mervel says:

    But if people choose to gamble who are we to tell them what to do with their own money on their own time? The state is already involved as a partner in alcohol and tobacco sales. Is forcing people by law to not be able to gamble taking their rights from them?

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

  18. Mervel says:

    Who are we to enforce our personal vision of what this state is supposed to be on others? Isn't that what all of these theocrats are trying to do? Private property, no one is hurt, consenting adults, I would say it is a go, how can we be for legalizing anything else if we are against this?

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

  19. JDM says:

    I wouldn't say the economic condition of the Indian reservation is anything to emulate.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

  20. Paul says:

    To folks with the opinion like Ken and Walker,

    Seriously you think that the government should make these kind of social decisions for people? They should also make sure that some religious institutions can force their views of what is moral on them as well also right? Freedom to make decisions like these are not big brothers they are mine and yours and everyone else. Like I said during the recent debate regarding access to contraceptives you can't always protect people from bad decisions. You have to let people decide for themselves. Some people enjoy gambling, can afford to do it, why shouldn't they be allowed to do it in a few more places. I don't like gambling but I am not ready to force my views onto other people.

    Popular. Like/Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  21. Walker says:

    I don't have real strong views on gambling, per se, but this story is talking about "up to seven Vegas-style casinos." If we're going to deregulate gambling, why are we limiting the number? Sounds like a fabulous opportunity for graft.

    Still, gambling is seriously addictive. Are you such a libertarian that you're ready to decriminalize heroin use and sales? Prostitution? Some people enjoy heroin, can afford to do it, why shouldn't they be allowed to do it in a few more places? And why not everywhere? Same with prostitution, no?

    Anyway, I stand by my "definitely an ugly social ill." How we decide which ugly social ills to legislate against, I don't pretend to know, other than put it to a vote. But if you do put it to a vote, I'd vote no.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

  22. Mervel says:

    I personally think that it is a social ill, but I also find other things social ills that I KNOW others on this board think is normal and a right; so who are we to judge?

    Popular. Like/Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  23. Mervel says:

    Public lands however, no then it is a different story, the same goes if it is in the Park, which is a public place, different story. The rez should be able to do whatever they please; including legalizing whatever they want; it is part of self determination and is spelled out in quite a few treaties.

    Popular. Like/Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

  24. Cuomo and Silver, however, oppose having a casino in Manhattan. but it is OK to stick them in everyone else's backyard?? Don't put it where there is a huge population, and a lot of income??? DUH!! Why don't we install them in the cafeteria's of every prison, oh no that would be our tax money being gambled away again!!!

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  25. Walker says:

    Mervel writes "…so who are we to judge?"

    We are citizens. We are voters. That's who.

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

  26. If Clapton is God, Warren Haynes is Jesus says:

    Decriminalize everything I say and let otherwise law abiding, tax paying, adults do whatever they wish as long as they aren't hurting anyone besides themselves. Gambling, drugs, sex trade…legalize and regulate them the same way we do other "vices" like alcohol and tobacco use. It's time we stop legislating morality and spending tax dollars babysitting adults. End the disgusting and wasteful nanny state that benefits only special interests and organized crime.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  27. OnewifeVetNewt says:

    I would consider adding, yes, heroin to that list, with a tax to pay for rehab for those who want it. Heroin makes people noddy, often bad parents, and bad workers, but not always.
    When I in the service (many, many, years ago) I once saw a guy shoot up and almost die (I was in his room with a friend who knew him). It was very scary, watching him turn blue and almost stop breathing, and wondering what the f_ _ _ _ to do, let him maybe die or call the medics and get him, and maybe us, go to jail and get a bad discharge.

    But he came out of it, and the next day was back on his job. As a flightline firefighter.

    But probably legalize not meth or cocaine, which, I think, makes people dangerous to others.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

  28. Leon B. Sweeney says:

    I pray that this will never come to be.
    All to much corruption and ills in our society already.
    It would be interesting to note who authorizes all the money that currently is spent on advertising for exsiting lotter alone.
    We do such a good job of promotion of the NYS lottery that it
    causes so many funded programs from the goverment to
    be taken from our taxes. We do not need more corruption.
    The large majority of the new jobs, take away from family and home values with the end product.

    Please at least be still and listen by going to prayer before you decide.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

  29. Pete Klein says:

    Other than the laws against murder, rape and robbery, I say legalize everything.
    It's about time the state get out of the business of helping religions control their flock of sheep.

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

  30. Paul says:

    Most people who gamble do not have any addiction problems with it. Don't know the stats on those who take heroin but if I had to guess I would think that most of them have serious addiction problem that they cannot control. I don't think you can really equate the two things.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  31. Walker says:

    Pete says "legalize everything."

    Well, let's see. Dynamite? Plastic Explosives? RPGs? Tanks?

    How about date rape drugs?

    Let's say there's a drug that routinely causes homicidal mania. Naturally, it would be possible to take it without killing anyone. (I'm thinking "bath salts," Mephedrone, though certainly it's not quite routine that users totally freak. But let's hypothesize something worse.)

    What about poison?

    What I'm trying to get at here is that it's easy to say "legalize everything" but when your kid gets killed by a drug-crazed psycho, or dies from a recreational drug that someone talked him into taking, it's another matter.

    Again, I'm not in favor of making everything illegal. I certainly think marijuana should be legalized. But there are lots of things I think need serious regulation.

    Hot debate. Like/Dislike Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

  32. Walker says:

    "Most people who gamble do not have any addiction problems with it."

    Probably true, but a UK study found that 0.6% of the adult population had problem gambling issues. Applying that percentage to the U.S. population, that would mean we have 2 million problem gamblers nationwide. The same study found that "The highest prevalence of problem gambling was found among those who participated in spread betting (14.7%), fixed odds betting terminals (11.2%) and betting exchanges (9.8%)" Those are pretty high problem rates. I suspect they're right up there with opiates.

    As for the pleasure that we would be denying people by stopping gambling, I have been to a casino once in my life, and what I saw looked like a really pathetic kind of "pleasure"– scores of gray haired folks feeding slot machines like they were wired to them.

    Which reminds me. In the early research on pleasure centers of the brain, they wired a chimp's pleasure center to a key, and gave him another key for food. The chimp hammered away on the pleasure button, totally ignoring the food button– he would have starved to death in time. All addictions are ugly.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

  33. It's Still All Bush's Fault says:

    Yes to casinos, marijuana and prostitution.

    I know that the prevalent attitude is that anything goes, but I think we should discuss this a bit more before we add herion, RPGs and plastic explosives to the list.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

  34. Walker says:

    Interesting that I get two Dislikes on a post that is essentially all factual.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

  35. If Clapton is God, Warren Haynes is Jesus says:

    Some addictions may be "ugly," but why is it the nanny states role to make them illegal? Eating too many Big Macs can be considered ugly. Drinking oneself to death can be ugly. Smoking until your mouth, esophagus, lungs, etc. rot from the inside outside is ugly. It isn't the governments role to dictate to adults what destructive behavior they should or shouldn't engage in as long as their hurting no one but themselves.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  36. Walker says:

    If I drive 120 mph on the interstate and I don't have any accidents, why should the government give me a ticket?

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  37. OnewifeVetNewt says:

    Walker-
    I think there are states where you can do this where not otherwise posted, and I'm pretty sure you still can on major parts of the German Autobahn.
    But where this behavior presents a significant danger to others, it can, and should, have the right to control it.

    BTW, were, as in my fantasy world, various types of dope to be made legal for adults, I would insist on the right of government to sanction against their use in households with minor children. As it now can in households where alcohol abuse is a problem (i.e., removal of children).

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  38. Walker says:

    When people become addicted to heroin or meth they can become a significant danger to others. Just sayin'.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  39. Walker says:

    Vet, I remember driving in Mexico in the late seventies. I don't recall if there was actually no speed limit, or if el ricos just drove that way, but driving at 65-70 I would pull out to pass an ancient, slow moving truck or car, I'd get half way around when suddenly there would be headlights flashing and horn blowing, and there would be a Maseratti or something up my tailpipe. It was not a lot of fun.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

  40. Larry says:

    Casino gambling was supposed to revitalize Atlantic City, fund education and solve all tax related problems in NJ. The reality is that casino owners have grown rich while Atlantic City remains a slum, school districts are bankrupt and NJ is one of the most heavily taxed states in the country. It ain't rocket science folks: casino gambling benefits ONLY those who own casinos. It's useless for the rest of us.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  41. Walker says:

    Yes Larry, but for some of us here, one rich man is worth a thousand paupers, and well worth a few hundred families impoverished by gambling addiction.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  42. Lily says:

    YES! Bring one or two into the Adirondack Park. Maybe then we'd get our roads fixed.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

  43. Mervel says:

    West Texas, speed limit 80 mph, most people go as we all do around 85-90. It works fine.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

  44. Walker says:

    Population density in West Texas is about as low as it gets: http://www.mapofusa.net/us-population-density-map.htm

    Plus, at 90, you're sucking down gas like there's no tomorrow.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  45. Walker says:

    "End the disgusting and wasteful nanny state that benefits only special interests and organized crime."

    I met a guy once who, two years earlier, had been riding in the back seat of a car with a couple of friends when someone threw a lit M-80 in the window. He grabbed it hoping to toss it out before it went off, but he didn't make it, and his hand was shredded. Many operations and much physical therapy later, his right hand was still essentially useless. He had been a mechanic, a good one. Now he subsisted on disability payments.

    So banning fireworks would limit some kids freedom to blow up mailboxes, but it would also have preserved this guy's freedom to have a right hand and his chosen occupation.

    Point is, some liberties almost always come at the expense of some other liberties. Mark Chapman's liberty to own a handgun came at the expense of John Lennon's life, and the liberty of Julian and Sean Lennon to have a father, and the liberty of Yoko Ono to have a husband, and the liberty of millions of fans to have another thirty years of his music.

    So I'm not real impressed with cries of "nanny state." The libertarian ideal seems badly thought out.

    Like/Dislike this comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2