Some thoughts on the Republican nightmare

Speaker John Boehner. Source: US House of Representatives

Speaker John Boehner. Source: US House of Representatives

From my provincial cheap-seats perch as a small-town public radio reporter and occasional newspaper and book writer, I’ve watched American politics for what (weirdly enough) amounts to about a quarter-century.

I have studied and written about, in particular, the rise of traditional conservatives, especially those activists and politicians whose values are rooted in rural America.

Despite observing at fairly close hand some of the great political dramas of recent history, I am completely gobsmacked by the sudden death spiral of the Republican Party.

I know “death spiral” seems like strong, perhaps even biased language.  I’ve become convinced that it amounts to accurate reporting, stripped of the cautious but inaccurate equivocation that has shaped much recent journalism.

Again and again since 2006, when the GOP first suffered severe electoral setbacks, I’ve posited the idea that some new coherent center would form that would draw Republicans back toward their longstanding role as one of America’s most important civic institutions.

Instead, a maelstrom of forces — ranging from the rise of billionaire activists, the growth of talk radio, the popularity of Fox News, more aggressive gerrymandering of House districts, the growth of the tea party in 2010, and on and on — have steadily eroded the Republican Party’s leadership.

A party that once produced statesmen, patriots and — in some cases — actual heroes of the caliber of Ronald Reagan, Dwight Eisenhower, and George HW Walker Bush is a vastly diminished force.

These days, the party is at its very best when it puts forward a John Boehner or a Mitch McConnell, and that’s not saying much.

More often the GOP is represented by Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Herman Cain, Sarah Palin, or the latest “maverick” talking about legitimate rape or the evils of contraception or the need for an “uprising.”

It’s worth pausing to take stock of just how far the GOP has gone down this path toward what may very well be a final, irreconcilable dissolution.

Not so long ago, Republicans strove to serve the nation as the party of the “silent majority,” a movement that prided itself on being the grown-ups, the budget-balancers, the people who favored dependability and steady progress over radical movements and turmoil.

The GOP also prided itself on being the party of American exceptionalism, convinced that our republic has a moral responsibility play a firm, predictable and strong role in the world’s affairs.

But in 2013, Republican rhetoric and political strategies look far more like that of the extreme left of the 1960s than like the “morning in America” movement of Ronald Reagan.

The party’s most powerful and influential voices are often shrill, desperate and apocalyptic.

Prominent figures on the right speak openly of dissolving the United States and its democratic institutions through secession or some kind of ostensibly peaceful revolution.

They talk of arming themselves to fight our own service-members and our own police.

While protesting something as picayune as a health insurance law, they proudly drape a foreign flag — that of the southern Confederacy — on the fence of our White House.

In an essay that was widely disseminated (and praised) in conservative circles this week, former GOP presidential contender Pat Buchanan argued that conservatives should go ahead and wreck the national economy if they don’t get their way in unraveling the Affordable Care Act.

“If Harry Reid’s Senate demands the GOP end the sequester on federal spending, or be blamed for a debt default, the [Republican] party should, Samson-like, bring down the roof of the temple on everybody’s head,” he insisted.

The temple that he’s talking about is America, our cherished nation.  The global economy.  Our jobs, our pensions and 401ks, our ability to defend our country and our interests overseas.

His essay was praised in particular by Rush Limbaugh, who spoke favorably of Buchanan’s “bring down the roof” metaphor.

There was a time when anyone flirting with the idea of this kind of collective national self-immolation would have been quietly shown the door by the worldly, accomplished and effective leaders of the Republican Party.

So far, that hasn’t happened. Instead, moderate Republicans continue to wring their hands about Mr. Obama, even as the far-right plots to push the last GOP centrists off the cliff in 2014’s primaries.

It is hard to see, at long last, what might pivot the Republican establishment back toward the kind of awakening where they realize that before they can speak sensibly about the travails of our nation, they must first see to their own crisis.

Bluntly, America desperately now needs an act of real courage from the GOP’s leaders.

We need them to rediscover their calling as the party that stopped the spread of slavery, led the fight against southern treason, stood strong against Soviet communism, and crusaded for the establishment of a strong, effective, and limited Federal government.

We need them to acknowledge and begin to combat the rise of racism, cultural paranoia, isolationism and end-times apocalyptic thinking within their own base and their own caucus.

This fight will almost certainly cost some politicians their careers.  There will be lost battles, ugly days, and perhaps in the end it will be impossible for the GOP to salvage itself as a center-right institution capable of governing a superpower.

But right now it is this fight over its own soul — not the battle over Obamacare or the Federal debt or Mr. Obama’s rather ho-hum second-term agenda — that America most needs common sense conservatives to fight and win.

68 Comments on “Some thoughts on the Republican nightmare”

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  1. knuckleheadedliberal says:

    Thanks for the honesty. For too long the “Media” have abrogated their responsibility to fairly assess the validity of conflicting points of view that are held out as “truth.” In that atmosphere the people with the biggest megaphone get disproportionate attention to their ideas, no matter if those ideas are demonstrably wrong-headed.

  2. Walker says:

    Too often it seems as if the only value all Republicans can agree on is opposition to taxes. That’s not a very inspiring message. It works better if you say you’re opposed to giving “stuff” to the people, but most Republicans these days are opposed even to unmistakably worthwhile expenditures like investments in infrastructure– you can’t imagine today’s Republican Party building the Interstate Highway System, can you? And you don’t have to look very hard to see that they’re doling out plenty of “stuff,” only their recipients of choice are big corporations.

    So what does the party stand for? “Freedom”? That’s pretty vague, isn’t it, and its an awkward fit with the Social Conservative branch of the party, which is demonstrably opposed to freedom for large segments of the population. And to the extent that “freedom” means letting big business run roughshod over consumers while paying their management an ever-larger slice of the economic pie, its bound to be starting to stick in the craw of more and more ordinary Americans.

    It appears to me that the party has been created based on a triumph of marketing over substance. It amazes me that it’s held together this long.

  3. Will Doolittle says:

    Thinking the latest debacle will lead to many, if any, consequences is wishful thinking, I think. Here is the thing: Although these politicians seem like nutters, a whole lot of people agree with what they’re doing and think along the same lines. They’re not out of step with their constituents. They’re not going to get voted out of office for their foolishness. They’re going to get cheered.

  4. Peter Hahn says:

    I hate to say it, but this is democracy. There’s that joke about it being the worst system except for all the others. “They” will be back. There is a strain of puritanism in the country that thinks that the poor would work harder if they suffered more. There is strong tradition of doubting science. Many people think it is their religious duty to pass legal judgement about other people’s sexuality.

    Occasionally a coalition of them gains electoral control.

  5. Walker says:

    Yeah, it’s a discouraging possibility that for many of these politicians, the shutdown/fiscal crisis was little more than a great fundraising stunt.

  6. dan says:

    I’d like to hear Cruz answer some hard questions. Who are these millions of Americans that are harmed by Obamacare? Perhaps he could name one piece of legislation that din NOT have a negative impact on some, while benefiting others. There are always two sides of that coin.
    The next time there’s an R in the White House, and one House is R, one D, perhaps the minority should “fight the good fight” and shut down the Nation unless the majority agree to universal background checks.

  7. Paul says:

    The funny thing is as a minority and through all this turmoil and death spiraling the republicans have scored the “victory” of turning the tide of the federal government from getting bigger to getting smaller? I think this is something that will be long lasting. The fact that sequestration (a terrible idea developed by the democrats) survived this last standoff is a testament to that. Democrats could not have been in a stronger position and still this irresponsible law (‘budget control act”, or whatever it is called) survived.

    There was a time in our history where a congressman saw fit to go to the senate and beat a republican Senator senseless right on the floor of the US capital. What is going on now is bad but it could be worse!

  8. Pete Klein says:

    Here’s the thing. All of what Brian says is true and all of what Doolittle says is true.
    But when it comes to the future of this country, if you happen to care about the future of this country, the idiots on the far right need to be disrespected and ignored. To consider their wishes/demands as things to be discussed and compromised with is to vote for the end of this country.
    The sad thing with this situation is those who would destroy thing country are not confined to one geographical area. If they were, we could have a war and do to them what was done to the southern states.

  9. Paul says:

    “end of this country”? Please. This sounds more like a right wing comment. Pete you don’t have a bunker up there do you? This is why there is this annoying shortage of the kinds of bullets we use for hunting. You can’t even buy a box of 22 shells right now. Everyone left and right and center needs to take a deep breath and then exhale slowly……

  10. Ken Hall says:

    An excellent analysis of the Republican Party’s self generated conundrum with which I have but a few quibbles:

    The Republican Party of which POTUS Lincoln was a member when he refused to allow the southern state to secede and retain their slaves is not the same party that exists today. Today’s Republicans are more akin to yesteryear’s southern Democrats who, subsequent to Democratic POTUS LBJ’s reaffirmation that the offspring of former slaves were indeed to be accorded equal rights with the, at the time majority, American Caucasians in the mid 60’s, left the southern Democratic Party en-mass to become the current Republican Party.

    The POTUS Regan administration re-instituted the concepts of greed that led to the “Great Depression” from the 1920’s through the 40’s and started the removal of the economic safeguards, thus greasing the skids leading to the next economic bubble, put in place by POTUS FDR, against massive headwinds from the monied elite, which culminated in the economic debacle, from which the world continues attempting to recover, during the reign of POTUS GWB.

    It does not require any stretch of imagination to recognize that the current Republican mantra of “no free lunch” is orchestrated by the progeny of the southern slave owners who wanted to secede in the 1860’s so as to retain their free lunch, the unpaid slaves that worked the southern and some northern farms. Today’s free lunch is part time workers who get no medical benefits, no retirement (except Social Security which the Republicans at the behest of their monied benefactors would desire to see disappear), no overtime pay (plenty of overtime sans pay), ., ., ., all to increase the bankrolls of those hard working “job creators”. The 5 Waltons (of Wal Mart) are estimated to have the economic clout of the bottom half of (140-160 million) Americans combined; now that is a “Hell-of-a-Deal”. This empire is run on a primarily part time worker basis so as to take advantage of the above enumerated deals and to stick the costs associated with enabling the workers to subsist onto the US taxpayers. This is just one of thousands, tens of thousands perhaps hundreds of thousands of, I love this phrase, Limited Liability Corporations (LLC’s) who do the same thing.

    It is not that the Republican Party has wandered off the beaten path a few hundred thousand feet it is that they have been usurped by the monied elite to serve at their beck and call and in turn allowed to enjoy some of the fruits of the obscenely wealthy to the detriment of 90%, 95% or 99% of the rest of us.

    Lest you believe that I believe the Democrats are our saviors, rest assured I do not. The difference between the democrats and the republicans in the US government is a matter of degree and practicality. The Democratic Party is also wholly owned by and in the pockets of the monied elite; however, a percentage of Democrats in government appear to recognize that the economic prosperity of the 1%, 5% or 10% cannot be maintained and more to the point “increased” if all of the rest of us are living hand to mouth day to day. They therefore attempt to enable POTUS Regan’s fabled “trickle down theory” via government disbursement of a modicum of the largess being funneled into the monied elites coffers into the pockets of the rest of us. To my mind the currently lavishly reviewed TV series “Breaking Bad” illustrates the human condition of absolute greed which apparently overtakes all of us such that the more an individual has the more she/he wants. At this point in time the monied elites are the Walter Whites of the world and obscenely insane wealth is never enough they want it ALL and to this end the US government (of the people, for the people by the people) has been usurped.

  11. newt says:

    As Walker said, to them it’s all about “FREEDOM”, as they see it. I don’t just mean the Republican politicians, I mean the people who elect them. I disagree with the idea that voters are substantially misled by Limbaugh, Fox, and the Kochs’ money. Rather, and I think research supports this, the belief and prejudices and folk wisdom of teaparty types simply follow, and to some extent amplify empower these views.

    We have a history.
    This country was founded by many ancestors who came here for freedom,all right, But for their own freedom and prosperity, not others:
    -Freedom to practice their own religions, and persecute and expel those (Indians, Quakers, Catholics etc) who did not share them.
    -Freedom to grab as much land as they could (from the Indians, among others).
    -Freedom to own other people to do their work and make their fortunes (insane as this now seems).
    -Freedom not to pay taxes for government benefits and benfits (e.g.,to repay for British government gold that paid the French-Indian War, or to pay government debts run up kicking the Brits out 20 years later ).
    -Freedom to despoil, pollute, and poison the land and waters in order to get rich.
    Freedom to ruthlessly practice business without legal restraint or oversight, without concern for their employees of the public.
    -Freedom not to have to pay taxes to provide for the sustenance , health care, education, of neighbors and their children who have fallen on hard times, or are simply less capable, though our history shows that a better educated, healthier, and poverty-free general population tends to increase the well-being of all.
    -Freedom from taxes paid to support the building of dams, highways, schools, and other public works that (of course, there are” bridges-to-nowhere”), that create jobs and generate new wealth for all

    While substantial numbers of Americans share a more moderate and pragmatic views, many, many still feel this way.

    Worse, many voters who suffer from the consequences of these views through poverty, lack of opportunity, and inadequate medical care, themselves still identify with, and politically support the
    Teapartyers, choosing to vote against taxing those who could afford to pay for better infrastructure, schools, and health care.

    So many millions of roosters crowing atop millions of dunghills.

    But FREE!

  12. Brian Mann says:

    Hi folks – Some good comments. I think those arguing that the GOP can’t self-correct — in part because so many House members are in safe, gerrymandered districts — are partially right. That is, certainly, the danger. But there is also a larger, collective Republican Party movement. It wants to win big national elections. It wants to be competitive in large urban states like California, Florida, New York and Texas. It wants, in a nutshell, power. (That’s the motivation for most political movements, right?) And the leadership of the GOP knows — more vividly than ever before — that their interests now diverge substantially from the narrower interests of ultra-conservative House members and AM radio talk show hosts and Fox News. So there’s a fight on. I concede readily that so far it’s been a lopsided fight. Moderates, centrists and their allies have been disorganized, muddled and, not to put to fine a point on it, pathetic. Can they rally and push their party back toward something like the middle of American politics? Democrats managed that feat after the 1968 convention. Republicans, while flirting with southern racial politics, did also manage to contain the loony John-Birch fringe for a time after they began accusing Eisenhower of treason. So there’s precedent for moderates seizing the day. Perhaps we’ll get lucky and this particular chapter of history will repeat itself. –Brian Mann, NCPR

  13. verplanck says:

    the fact that the speaker of the house was listening to a small portion of his part of one half of one branch of our government is frightening. This isn’t democracy. Democracy would have been to have a clean CR put up for vote to the full chamber weeks ago, something the house leadership refused to do, up until we looked over the edge of the cliff.

    The arcane rules of the legislative branch are now the controlling mechanisms of our government (e.g. Hastert Rule, filibusters, etc), not the constitution.

  14. Paul says:

    Some serious rants going on here today. Let’s try this again. Deep breath, exhale slowly…. There you go. Feel better?

    Look the republicans took a serious beating some of you should be happy, yet I see some of the same old stuff.

  15. Paul says:

    I think it was interesting to see that it was republican women who seemed to be the voice of reason in this recent mess. I think it has helped them a lot more than this has helped Senator Cruz (BTW what is with his hair? looks like something from Happy Days?).

  16. Walker says:

    “Look the republicans took a serious beating some of you should be happy, yet I see some of the same old stuff.”

    Paul, the nation took a serious beating. That doesn’t make me happy. And I see no signs at all that the more radical members of the Republican party are feeling chastened– quite the opposite: they seem to feel that they need to push harder next time.

    Not encouraging at all, not to me, and I should think not to you either.

  17. verplanck says:

    personally, I don’t feel “better” after the GOP took a beating in public opinion. Our economy took a noticeable hit thanks to this useless stunt. And the hard-liners haven’t learned their lesson, they are already starting to talk about doing this again when we reach this same point in February.

    I’m fine with the reps citizens choose, but I’m not fine with a small rump holding this much power.

    Anyone remember when the house in 2007 threatened default in order to end the Iraq war?

  18. Peter says:

    The situation is tragic and we should refer to our Owner’s Manual and User’s Guide, the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution.

    I understand why a lot of people are starting to think that we will need to defend our Country from the Government.

    Not once during this debacle were specific issues addressed. Our weakling parties on both sides of the isle decry over-spending and over-taxation, then they conspire to do both. I live near one of the service academies and in my own backyard we can’t figure out why a brand new 100,000 square foot commissary is being built when the current one works just fine, and there are two Walmarts within 10 miles. Why is the base building a brand new $100 million medical center? For a handful of retired captains? Why is a luxury marina being built for officers? Why is the base golf course making $7million in improvements. A new indoor skating rink? Really? I also live near NSA and to see the millions of square feet of new “office” buildings being built is just mind blowing. A few hundred million dollars here and there? It’s got to stop.

    We need strength of character and moral values in our leadership, not the narcissistic sociopaths we have now.

    Should we wait for it to collapse on itself, like it nearly did yesterday, or what should we do?

    I’ve listed only a few MINOR expenditures. Let’s look at the bigger picture and try to figure out how to make the Federal Government half the size it is, within the next five years. That would be a good start.

    Perhaps we should have taken George Washington’s advice:

    “a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification”….
    “And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country,”
    “such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the public councils.”
    “Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government….. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests.”
    “Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?”
    “It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world”
    “nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded;” …
    “The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave”…
    “It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest”….
    “The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of nations, has been the victim.”
    “The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible”…..

  19. Jim Bullard says:

    Can the Republican party regroup? If the analysis I’ve been reading lately is correct, after taking out the evangelical/social conservatives and the Tea party, the moderates are no more than 20-25% of today’s Republicans. To ‘take back’ the party that minority needs to either change the minds of the majority by somehow countering all the right wing brainwashing that has been going on for over 3 decades or cut off the majority and enlist recruits from independent voters and the Democrats. The first is beyond unlikely and the leadership to do the latter is non-existent.

    I have to take exception to Brian’s inclusion of Reagan as one of the Republican ‘heros’. The Reagan administration in fact was the start down the road we are now on. Yes, he had charisma, a likable guy, but he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. His policies set up the expectation of the far right that their agenda could be realized and emboldened them to push harder. In my opinion his administration was a slow motion disaster for the American Dream.

  20. Verplanck says:

    Peter, which half of the government do you want to get rid of? The one with our military, or the one with social security? And how do we deal with the inevitable global depression it will cause?

    Eliminating waste and fraud are only one part of the solution. We need more revenues, we need to tax the rich.

    Are there ways to make this huge organization that is our government more efficient? Absolutely. But any large organization, be it walmart or government, is rife with inefficiency. It’s inevitable. Why did walmart waste millions of dollars building a store within 10 miles of another? Why do they build stores and abandon them a few years later only to move down the road and build another one? Would you be satisfied with their rationalization about market forces? If so, would you also buy the government’s rationalizations?

  21. Michael Ludovici says:

    I don’t know if the GOP could survive the Tea Party splitting off.
    At any rate, the GOP may not survive as viable. If the GOP fails, then the Democratic Party would eventually die also.
    In this day of interconnectivity do we really need a two or three party system?

  22. hermit thrush says:

    i think the gop is obviously going to change. they just need to lose a few more elections to make it happen. the incredible stunt they’ve just pulled has them well on their way.

  23. The Original Larry says:

    Lots of wishful thinking, Brian Mann, with a whiff of fear that the nation will discover exactly how “ho-hum” Obama’s presidency has been before the Republicans commit the political suicide Democrats so desperately hope for. By the time Chris Christie plants himself in the middle of the road (go ahead, I know you can’t resist) he’s going to look like the second coming of Teddy Roosevelt, especially if Obama continues his snotty non-performance. We’ll see just how resilient the Republican party really is then.

  24. Peter says:

    Obamacare thing is a farce. Al we really needed were simple regulations saying that an applicant would not be denied because of preexisting conditions, and that health insurance plans could be sold inter-state.

    What we really need is better health care (especially prevention), and not more burden oh health insurance.

    There is a difference between health care and health insurance. We’ve been led to believe that Obamacare is about health care: it is not; it’s about health insurance.

  25. Peter says:

    Verplanck, let’s start with the examples I mentioned.

  26. Brian Mann says:

    OL –

    What part of my essay could conceivably be viewed as wishful thinking? Lamenting the self-destruction of one of America’s great civic institutions? This is serious business. It’s not tit-for-tat who scored on whom, who’ll win the next election silliness. Because he said it far, far better than I could, I want to quote at length a paragraph from Jon Lovett’s powerful essay in the Atlantic.

    “America needs a strong, rational, positive, practical conservative movement. It needs that bulwark against liberal delusion and hubris. It needs a voice that says we are imperfect, that life is complex, that government can create need even as it meets need, that you can’t fix everything and freedom is worth some danger and sorrow. And there are smart, honest conservatives at the ready to be that voice, to help govern practically and sincerely with that voice, but they are drowned out by the guttural scream of craven utopians raging against reality.”

    The silencing of the great American conservative voice — or, more accurately, as Lovett argues, having it drowned out by people who shriek about death panels and secession and Black Panthers and the gold standard and contraception and the apocalypse and legitimate rape — isn’t something any sane person would wish for.

    –Brian Mann, NCPR

  27. dave says:

    Larry,

    If Christie plants himself in the middle, he will never get by the lunatic fringe in the GOP primaries.

    If he plays to that fringe to win the primary, and then tries to maneuver to the middle for the general election, people will see through it and reject it just like they did with Romney.

    This is the pickle you find yourself in when you allow extremists to drive your party.

    I don’t know how the GOP gets out of this, without somehow taking control of their own primaries again. But how on earth would they do that? Prevent acknowledged tea-party candidates from running on their tickets?

  28. Peter says:

    Brian, no disrespect intended, but I never would have thought that you would be a supporter of conservatism.

  29. dave says:

    I do tend to agree with Will here though. This is a systemic problem.

    The extremists are being safely elected and have the support of a majority of people in their home districts. They are not going to feel any pain over this behavior, so why would they stop doing what they are doing?

    There is no pressure on them to change.

    Which is fine, if you ask me. If some district in some state is composed of extremist citizens, then why would we bemoan the fact that they elect and are represented by an extremist who shares their views? That is how democracy works.

    The problem comes when those extremists, who represent a minority in our overall democracy, are able to subvert the democratic process and, as Pat Buchanan just wrote, “Bring down the roof on everyone’s head”

    A minority political group should not have the power to destroy (or threaten to destroy) the political system of the majority. Under any definition, that is not democracy… and that it continues to happen in this country, is a serious, serious, problem.

  30. Paul says:

    Walker, it is not encouraging to me. But it is encouraging for some.

  31. The Original Larry says:

    Talk about “shrill, desperate and apocalyptic”! Just because you fervently wish for something, that does not make it a reality. If the Democrats could survive the Civil War I feel sure the Republicans can survive the Tea Party’s recent antics. I know that will disappoint many of you, but your end of days vision is just not a reality. Have theRepublicans hurt themselves? Certainly, but they will recover, faster than you think. Christie doesn’t need the Republican lunatic fringe,; he’ll attract plenty of Democrats who are tired of their own lunatic fringe.

  32. The Original Larry says:

    I forgot to add that Christie will get the nomination if he wants it because he is widely seen as a winner, which is, after all, what it’s all about.

  33. Paul says:

    I have seen some articles today about all the different agenda items that are now on the table. Immigration, farm bill, budget….

    This is already crazy. There can only be one item. The budget. This new deadline is like tomorrow! Throw in the holidays and you might as well let CNN put their clock back on the TV.

    This deal stinks, and we are already running out of time.

    Let’s put the Presidents budget and Paul Ryan’s on the table and start the discussion yesterday.

  34. Paul says:

    “The silencing of the great American conservative voice — or, more accurately, as Lovett argues, having it drowned out by people who shriek about death panels and secession and Black Panthers and the gold standard and contraception and the apocalypse and legitimate rape — isn’t something any sane person would wish for.”

    Sure, but people are attracted to that kind of stuff. It goes viral, can’t help but be drowned out by a small minority these days. Heck it only takes a few people to draw in the cameras and make it look like the norm. Before you know it some of the kooks that were in the viral video are in the house and senate! Then you can’t just turn them off you have to deal with them. That is what we saw here. You are beginning to see some of this on the left as well. It is in its infancy but I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few years we serious have problems on all sides. Maybe we have you tube and twitter to thank for it. Maybe this is America? Maybe the people like the one above who wants a strong, rational, (etc.) conservative movement are few and far between. Conservative has been successfully made synonymous with loony right wingers.

  35. St. Lawrence Escapee says:

    The saddest thing to me about today’s political climate is that any American who believes in science and logic doesn’t really have a choice of political parties. That is horrifying to me.

    The GOP has lost its mind. Let’s summarize their message from 2012:

    Gay people: The same as dog rapists
    Union members: Union Thugs
    Single Women on Birth Control: Sluts
    Latinos: We’ll make it so tough you’ll self-deport
    Blacks: lazy and on food stamps
    People who Don’t make enough to pay federal income tax: victims and leeches

    I am simply stating what the GOP leadership says. Then, incredibly, after insulting virtually everyone in America who isn’t a white business owner, they blame Obama’s victory on voter fraud.

    The current GOP is beyond repair. They consider Michelle Bachmann a legitimate presidential candidate, God Help Us All.

  36. jake says:

    If you think about it, this mess goes back to the republicans in the George W Bush tenure, when the energy industry / defense industry were given Trillions (no bid contracts/ no ” on the books” budget for wars, billions in tax incentives) all to bankrupt the balance sheet so social programs would have to be cut. All this while CEO’s make billions. We have some upside down thinking going on here. I just do not understand why poor red neck applaud this, while simultaneously are hurt by it. You have to admit the republicans have a good divide and conquer strategy

  37. hermit thrush says:

    what andrew sullivan says:

    And the key thing for responsible actors in the next year is to remind voters again and again about what this crew voted for: a second great depression to appease their ideological purity. They nearly got away with it. The lesson should not be relief and moving on; it should be continued outrage at this vandalism and brinksmanship and a demand for accountability. That means voting Democrat next year even if you disagree about many aspects of their policy proposals. Because this is not about mere policy. It’s about a party threatening to break apart the country if they do not get the rest of us to bend to their minority will and their apocalyptic vision.

  38. The Original Larry says:

    We are really seeing some substantive comments now. Actually, I don’t know what’s worse, the dog rapist comment, which is patently absurd or Andrew Sullivan’s assertion that Republicans voted for “a second great depression” which is more ridiculous the more you think about it. Maybe quoting Sullivan is itself the worst.

  39. Paul says:

    Now that we have a temporary reprieve and the the threat of default is lifted and the government has been re-opened (temporarily on both counts) it is time to negotiate.

    Democrats including the president have said they agree that the ACA can be improved. Since it looks like almost no one is signing up (http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2013/10/14/how-many-people-have-enrolled-in-obamacare-an-early-look/) and the ones who probably are are sick and will drive up costs putting continued pressure on the national debt. How do we plan to encourage young healthy people to spend more money than they have to to get insurance? Why buy “insurance” and pay for it when you can still wait till your house has burned down to get it? I have never understood this concept?

    The sign up problems are just the tip of the iceberg here I afraid?

  40. dave says:

    “Let’s put the Presidents budget and Paul Ryan’s on the table and start the discussion yesterday.”

    I agree with ya. But I wish it was that easy.

    Obama’s budget = $1,203
    Ryan’s budget = $967
    Senate continuing resolution = $986

    The clean CR was very very close to the Ryan budget – certainly closer than it was to the Obama budget. And Ryan didn’t even vote on it!

    That is because this mess was not really about the budget… and it certainly wasn’t about democrat’s or Obama’s willingness to compromise or negotiate on the budget (they already did, look at the numbers)

    This was always about a minority using the budget process, and the threat of default, to try to roll back a law that was passed by a democratically elected majority (then reaffirmed in a presidential election… and then upheld by a conservative supreme court…)

    So the question is, will this next round of brinkmanship really be about the budget – which would be reasonable and seems solvable – or will it again be an effort to roll back the ACA?

  41. hermit thrush says:

    larry, please ask rick santorum how absurd the dog rapist comment is.

    as for a majority of the house gop caucus just voting to default on our debt obligations, i guess you think things wouldn’t have been so bad?

  42. Walker says:

    Paul, I think you’re misreading that Forbes piece. As I read it, people are signing up in significant numbers in states where the websites are working. It’s only in the states where the technology is a mess that enrollment is low. That means that the demand is there, awaiting the fixing of the glitches. They’re bound to be fixed eventually, and when they are, lots of people will get signed up.

  43. The Original Larry says:

    ht, stop pretending to be a simpleton; people are liable to start believing you. I said the comment was absurd, and it is. How far did Santorum’s candidacy get? My point, which you insist on pretending not to get, is that the Republican party will be fine, especially as they begin to move towards centrist candidates like Christie, who can win national elections. As far as voting for a depression, didn’t Obama once vote against raising the debt limit? Little did we know he would actually deliver!

  44. TomL says:

    In my half-century, I have seen the national Republican Party in complete collapse (1974, with Nixon’s resignation) and the national Democratic Party in complete collapse (1980 Reagan revolution). Probably could throw in a few others (1968 Democratic Party). The two parties ALWAYS bounce back, though maybe in a new form. We have only lost two major parties (Federalists, Whigs) but each loss resulted in a similar replacement.

    The parties change a bit in ideology over time, but always craft a tent big enough to win elections. Since the majority of Americans are centrist (really renter-right) in politics, when parties start loosing, they move back to the center and marginalize the extremes – left or right. Leftists and rightists that want to remain viable remake themselves as centrists.

    That is what we will see now, I believe. People like Bachman and Cruz will be marginalized and will fade away. Want to know Congress’s very lowest priorities? See what committees Ted Cruz is assigned to in January. Others of the hard right – I am guessing Ron Paul – will remake themselves into mainstream conservative establishment. The Republican Party will be back, in a more moderate mainstream form and with a platform that is much more appealling to the diversity that is America… either in 2016 or 2018. Anyway, that is my prognostication.

  45. Walker says:

    I hope you’re right, Tom. I can’t say that I can see any sign of it happening yet though.

  46. Paul says:

    Walker, I hope I am misreading that. The important data, once we get it will be who is signing up. I find it hard to believe that many young people will sign up to pay for something they don’t need. They did need it, now that you can sign up when sick why would many young people bother? Like I said this is the part of the plan that baffles me. You gotta have a much bigger stick than 95 dollar fine that we don’t even plan to enforce?

  47. Paul says:

    Dave, they gotta start talking again. I am not going to predict the outcome. There are all kinds of favors and other stuff to get things done. The president needs to get into the smoky back rooms and onto the golf course….

  48. Walker says:

    “…now that you can sign up when sick why would many young people bother?”

    Because you can only sign up at one time of year. If you get sick or have a skiing accident at the wrong time of year, you’d better have plenty of ready cash on hand.

    Besides, there are other people, like my wife, who is very healthy but who wants coverage to avoid catastrophic medical costs.

  49. knuckleheadedliberal says:

    Estimates of the cost to taxpayers for this shutdown exceed $200 billion. Doesn’t seem conservative and it doesn’t seem worth it.

  50. verplanck says:

    peter,

    if you’d like to get into the nitty gritty details of those particular projects, post up a link as to scope, size and project cost breakdown and I’ll take a look. Otherwise, I’ll stick to the 10,000 foot view for now.

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