Memo to think-tankers: We need an APA poll now.
This week the Glens Falls Post-Star published an editorial urging incoming Governor Andrew Cuomo to make Adirondack Park Agency reform a major priority.
The newspaper’s reform proposals are well worth debating and considering. But one part of the argument caught my eye.
The editorial points to a “growing level of discontent among park residents,” citing as evidence for this trend “40 pages of almost unanimously negative comments about the Adirondack Park Agency.”
The Post-Star goes on to describe the APA as a “kind of shadow government” and insist that the situation has “reached crisis proportions.”
As I’ve written here before, my reporting just doesn’t seem to bear out that kind of conclusion.
Yes, there are a lot of people who loathe the APA and see it as an unfair imposition on local control and private property rights.
And there is a growing sense that some reforms are needed to the Adirondack Park Agency Act and the structure of the APA’s board.
But I also talk regularly with local residents and town officials who view the Agency as an important and reasonable partner.
To cite one example, the town supervisor in Johnsburg, Sterling Goodspeed, recently praised the APA for its help with a new resort project near Gore Mountain.
He argued that local governments often lack the expertise and staff to monitor and deal with big projects.
There also appears to be a fairly large cultural divide between “homegrown” Adirondackers — many view the APA as an imposition — and some recent arrivals, who appear more comfortable with the Park’s rules and restrictions.
My point here isn’t that I knew where public opinion on this really stands. I don’t. It could be that the Post-Star’s read is far more accurate than what I’m hearing.
But I do know we need much better information, something that goes beyond the anecdotal.
We need someone — ANCA or AATV maybe? — to produce a really professional unbiased survey of Adirondack residents, one that uses a neutral pollster to ask serious questions about the APA and its track record.
(Full disclosure: NCPR tried to put a project like this together and we lacked the resources and expertise to do it properly.)
Here’s what I would like to know:
How many people have had direct interactions with the APA? Have those interactions been positive, negative, or neutral?
Do you view the APA as a serious hindrance to the Adirondack economy? Should the APA be abolished?
Is the APA needed to protect the Adirondack environment? Do its zoning rules enhance your quality of life, or the value of your property?
Do environmentalists have too much influence over APA decisions? Do developers have too much influence?
I would also ask some baseline questions, hoping to contrast views about the APA with views about other regulatory agencies.
(When I’m researching stories, I often find as much anger aimed toward local zoning boards or toward the Department of Environmental Conservation.)
My sense is that the culture and demographic mix inside the blue line has changed a lot in recent years.
It would be great to grab a fresh and accurate new snapshot of where we are — average citizens — in our view of Park and its management.
Tags: adirondacks, environment, land use
Brian,
You need to understand the Post Star is anti APA. Period. It doesn’t cover the APA. It doesn’t even cover the Review Board. It doesn’t cover any of the town boards in the Adirondacks. It is just knee jerk anti APA.
I guess they think it sells papers.
The main reason I subscribe to the paper is I like to read the comics while having breakfast and I want to know if anyone I know died.
Some of the paid national columnist are interesting and I read some of the AP stories. Other than that, no reason to buy the paper except for not wanting to put the paper deliverer out of work.
“There also appears to be a fairly large cultural divide between “homegrown” Adirondackers — many view the APA as an imposition — and some recent arrivals, who appear more comfortable with the Park’s rules and restrictions.”
This could be true. And I would clearly fall into the latter category.
However, I have been coming here a long time, and during that time – and since moving here permanently – I have yet to meet someone in person who loathes the APA to the degree I read about online.
Sure, I have met people who complain about this or that, but someone who vehemently opposes the agency? Haven’t had the pleasure of meeting them yet.
Just the opposite usually. For us, and a lot of people we have met and talk to, the agency is actually an asset. Without the guarantees of a protected Park, we certainly wouldn’t have moved here.
So I struggle to explain the differences in experience that we have always had, and are now having, with the dramatic negativity I constantly read in newspapers and on these websites.
Who exactly are these people that find it so miserable to live here? Where do they hang out? Why haven’t we met them?
Maybe this is just a case of like minded people finding like minded people, but I don’t know… you would think that as often as it comes up in conversation that we would have encountered one single person by now who loathes the APA.
But we haven’t. So it is hard for me to think of this as anything more than a disgruntled vocal minority with the internet and a sympathetic Post-Star editorial section as a megaphone.
Maybe if the APA was a little more balanced it might be better received.
They have screwed many people over the years but they met their match with Sandy Lewis.
Good bye APA and good riddance.
This is interesting. I know a lot of people where I grew up in the Adirondacks that fit into the “loathing” category. Dave, I can introduce you but I don’t think you would get along! I also know a lot of people that are quite “liberal” when it comes to environmental issues that also have problems with how the APA does business. This is the most interesting category of folks. I also know a lot of folks that think the agency is doing a good job. My guess is that a POLL would show a pretty mixed bag.
Paul, are these people you know folks who have tried to build something and have been turned down by the agency? Do you have any insight into what prompts their feelings – was it a specific personal experience/incident, or is it just a general feeling?
I ask because I grew up in a small town just south of the Park, and I know people there who are angry and upset and “loathe” the local government and whatever regulatory committee they might have to interact with, etc etc.
I think it is true that there is a % of any community that is just unhappy and prone to blaming and hating rules and government. That they tend to be the loudest and get more press is no surprise. Unhappy people are always more vocal than their happy counterparts.
It is also no surprise that they find their own echo chambers, be it social circles or sympathetic news outlets… and probably also no surprise that I haven’t found, or that I avoid, those echo chambers.
But so far, I haven’t seen or heard anything to suggest the Adirondacks are any more or less disgruntled than any other area when it comes to this.
On the other hand, I have been overwhelmed by how many people I have met who are truly happy to be here and love the life. That is not something you get everywhere.
So your experiences go against established orthodoxy? How dare you?!
The Post-Star’s editorial board is anti-APA and I’d wager that’s why they assign an anti-APA reporter to do these exposes.
As such, I think NCPR should take you off the APA beat and assign Sandy Lewis instead.
Also, I recognize that when I discuss this issue – of people’s happiness or unhappiness with the APA – I have a tendency to blend it with people’s general happiness/unhappiness with living here. I would argue that there is a strong relation between the two… but I understand it is not always that way.
Brian,
You should also add some questions to differentiate between the differing kinds of interactions with the APA. Were they homebuilders? Folks raising concerns about adjacent projects? Contractors/developers?
This would be a real good resource to work off of.
Number one issue for realtors in the Adirondacks — the APA.
The number one issue in the Adirondack newspapers — the APA.
The number one issue for North Country Public Radio blogs — the APA.
The real number one-three issues for the adirondacks — no industries, no jobs and the lack of medical care for the year round residents.
Now what issue should the next governor deal with for his number one priority?
The APA, of course — why would he want to tackle the hard problems when he could just dissolve the APA and make the media go into a frenzy.
Mary’s comment should be quoted and disseminated widely.
“I have a tendency to blend it with people’s general happiness/unhappiness with living here. I would argue that there is a strong relation between the two…”
Dave, I am not so sure I follow? I think that many of the people that have issues with the APA love living in the Adirondacks.
I do agree that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. When it comes to something like zoning, I don’t think you are going to see many satisfied people come forward to defend the agency. Like I have seen here and in other posts the agency approves almost all the permit applications they receive so that probably tones down any glaring support they might get from environmental groups (they are being sued by some!). I think there is some level of dissatisfaction on both sides. I am concerned with the number of lawsuits that have plagued the agency. This is an extremely expensive way to do business.
It would be interesting to have some real information instead of all the ignorant speculation that passes for conversation down at Stewarts in the morning.
On the other hand if you take our ignorant speculation away our lives will be much less interesting. Do you know anyone with an iPhone? Any kind of idle speculation gets nipped in the bud by actual facts. I dread the day we get cell phone coverage everywhere.
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but is it possible former Town of Johnsburg Supervisor William Thomas, who sits on the APA board, might have had anything to do with making current Town of Johnsburg Supervisor so happy with that project the APA bent over backwards to help with in the Town of Johnsburg?
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but is it possible former Town of Johnsburg Supervisor William Thomas, who sits on the APA board, might have had anything to do with making current Town of Johnsburg Supervisor Sterling Goodspeed so happy with that project the APA bent over backwards to help with in the Town of Johnsburg?
Crap, stupid computer…
i am an adirondacker, and the problem lies in the fact that adirondackers don’t like being told what to do by perceived outsiders who know little about the area.
what do you mean i can’t build a boathouse on my property?
why can’t i build third, fourth and fifth floors atop by home?
why can’t gleneagles come into lake placid, purchase someone’s land and create a large resort property?
why can’t michael foxman’s people come into tupper lake and revive the town?
what about front street and the gore expansion?
why? why? why?
it’s a real conundrum. these are some of the projects that excite us for their economic potential, and scare us with their scope. these cause some of us to tell the APA to get out of the way, while others run to them for protection.
you can’t have it both ways.
in 1974 the APA was a synonym for “no”. that’s when a pile of dung was placed on their front steps with a note attached: “we’ve taken enough of your s–t….here’s some of ours.”
now there is a better sense of balance.
as for the retired and second home folks, no offense, but you don’t (or haven’t had to) make your living in the adirondacks.
most of you made it elsewhere and have the checks sent north. but don’t worry…..when i build my APA-approved resort, i will be sure to invite you over.
I think that the issue is somewhat perception, perceptions that could be off at times. But I also think that since the APA is involved in state land matters (classifications etc.) that it is perceived correctly as more than the “other regulatory committees” that Dave describes in other places. If these tasks were housed back at the DEC rather than at the APA perceptions would probably improve.
Also some other zoning agencies are perceived (again maybe correctly, maybe not) as ones that promote development to some extent. This is because they are set up to let folks know that you CAN do this or that without a permit, or come and get one it just takes a 1 page application and a small fee. It would be the same if the APA, for example, said as long as you follow our setback rules you don’t need an APA permit, just get one from the town (they want your 25 bucks!). That is part of the reason why they approve most permits if you go through the process. The question is is the process set up specifically to slow development or change the way that development on private land happens? This is the important question. If the answer is YES on the first question, than the kooks (as some see them) that are upset are right.
cement, the Front Street development near Gore Mountain was approved as far as I recall. The development isn’t moving forward because the private developer doesn’t want to build right now.
Contrary to popular belief the APA doesn’t take jurisdiction of the vast majority of building projects that happen in the Park. Nor are most of the people building on lakes and scenic rivers “native” Adirondackers.
“Dave, I am not so sure I follow? I think that many of the people that have issues with the APA love living in the Adirondacks.”
When I read the comments on the Post-Stars website I see people complaining about life under a shadowy, undemocratic, oppressive (fascist, even) agency…
People who love where they live wouldn’t describe their situation like that.
Regardless of how one feels about the APA, one thing that can not be disputed is the amount of media coverage the agency gets recently. A think tank question (as Brian Mann suggests) might be along the lines of ” Does the recent amount of litigation involving the APA cause you (the taxpayers of New York State) any concern? Other thoughts I would offer is the Adirondack is supposed to be the great experiment of private and state lands mixed with vibrant communities. Is this model working? I recently applied for and received with relative ease a Non-Jurisdictional determination from the APA regarding a minor two-lot subdivision. This was all well and good until it dawned on me that what really was happening was that I had to apply to the APA for the right for them to tell me I did not have to apply to them . Final thoughts:1) I say relative ease it should be its there job 2) A change in leadership with an agency endearing so much debate is a good thing Finally if the current model is not working as some suggest think out of the box and try it without the APA. Eliminate the APA and if that doesn’t work add it back.
Brian:
I encourage you to read the raw responses to the the APRAP questionnaire distributed to local governments. There is an entire section dedicated to land use and the current regulatory environment. Basically the findings were that the staff is increasingly viewed favorably but the regulations are were problems exist.