The stupid #(*$# men say when they talk about rape
Comedian Bill Cosby. Photo: Wikipedia. United States Navy photo by Mr. Scott King
So here we go again. We find ourselves caught up once more in a furor over rumors and allegations that a prominent figure — this time, comedian and cultural icon Bill Cosby — raped and sexually assaulted women over a long period of time.
According to Cosby’s accusers, he drugged them and then raped them. The charges are gravely serious.
The good news about the Cosby allegations is that they, like the charges leveled recently against CBC broadcaster Jian Ghomeshi, and the long drumbeat of accusations against other prominent men, force us to confront the epidemic of sexual violence against women in America and around the world.
Now the tricky part…
The bad news is that in the year 2014, men still have such a difficult time talking about this. It’s embarrassing, really, and shocking. In the last few months alone we’ve had a college president accuse women on his campus of trumping up rape charges against young men.
“We have, we had, on this campus last semester three cases of young women who after having done whatever they did with young men and then it didn’t turn out the way they wanted it to turn out, guess what they did,” said Lincoln University President Robert Jennings. “They went to Public Safety and said, ‘He raped me.'”
To make such a comment in the context of new research from the White House about the vulnerability and victimization of women on campuses is remarkable. This is exactly the kind of wink-nudge talk that enables violence against women.
And Jennings isn’t alone. We’ve also seen CNN anchor Don Lemon this week accuse one of Cosby’s alleged rape victims of not doing enough to fight him off, going so far as to suggest that she should have used her teeth to protect herself.
“As a victim myself I would never want to suggest that any victim could have prevented a rape,” Lemon said, as he scrambled to walk back his comments. “If my question struck anyone as insensitive, I’m sorry as that was not my intention.”
Insensitive? That’s not actually the word I’d use.
When a man gets mugged is it his fault? Should he face a culture of shame and suspicion?
And then there is BBC announcer Nick Conrad who this week defended a football player jailed after being convicted of raping women. In his comments, Conrad argued — in quite astonishing detail — that women who are raped and sexually assaulted by men are in some significant measure to blame for the violence done to them.
BBC Nick Conrad has apologized for suggesting that women are partially to blame when they are raped by men. Photo: BBC via Twitter
“I think women need to be more aware of a man’s sexual desire that when you’re in that position that you are about to engage in sexual activity there’s a huge amount of energy in the male body, there’s a huge amount of will and intent, and it’s very difficult for many men to say no when they are whipped up into a bit of a storm,” Conrad said, during a broadcast in which he suggested repeatedly that he was trying to speak carefully about the issue.
“It’s the old adage about if you yank a dog’s tail then don’t be surprised when it bites you.”
Right. That’s why men rape women, because women lead them on and get them all steamy. Ugh. It wouldn’t be so pathetic if this were 1964 rather than 2014.
How do we men keep getting this so wrong, even when we’re trying to get it right?
I want to make clear that in thinking about this dilemma — that is, the horrid, ignorant and dangerous $*#&# that men say when they talk about rape — I’m actually not talking about the crazies.
I’m not talking about those who believe that there is some form of “legitimate” rape, or those who think that womens’ bodies have secret, internal defense mechanisms against becoming pregnant after sexual violence.
I’m not talking about trolls like Rush Limbaugh who deliberately use questions about the validity of rape charges or female sexuality as a political weapon.
The part I’m talking about is the frightening number of men who are actually trying to talk sensibly about this. They think they’re making a real effort to join the conversation, and failing miserably.
A few tips for the guy who wants to avoid making an $&#&# of himself
So here are a few suggestions, man to man, for any of my brothers in maleness (or in the broadcast industry) who think it’s a good idea to chime in on this issue. (And you should. We need to have this conversation.)
First, it’s important to do a ton of listening first. You think you know what you’re talking about and you almost certainly don’t. So stop for a moment and ask yourself, just like you would on any other issue, “What kind of research have I done? Do I know the statistics? Do I actually know what rape is or how it works?”
Part of this research involves talking to actual women. So if there are women in the room (and there should be) ask a bunch of questions before chiming in with your own opinion. (Start with “Can we talk about this?” and go from there.)
Then ask yourself some tough questions. If you don’t think a person getting mugged or murdered is somehow a collaborator, or an instigator, why do you think a woman (or a man or a child) who has been raped is somehow complicit? What is it about your own conditioning that you think women who’ve been raped are suspect or didn’t fight hard enough or invited it?
Another important question involves politics. If you’re using “rape” and “feminism” in the same sentence, that’s a red flag.
Why is it that you think the issue of sexual violence against women is somehow tangled up in America’s culture war? What evidence do you have that women are somehow using rape as a weapon against men?
Finally, ask yourself why sexual violence — a horrific, shattering crime — is treated so differently in America compared with other types of other law-breaking. Why is there a statute of limitations on punishing men who have brutally attacked and raped other human beings?
Why do so many law enforcement agencies fail to process the rape kits, packed with physical evidence, gathered from women who’ve been assaulted?
Why does our society allow institutions — colleges, sports teams, clubs, churches — to “handle” accusations of rape and sexual violence internally and often secretly, without involving the police or prosecutors? If someone steals a bag of potato chips, we call the cops. If someone is accused of raping a woman, we convene a peer group.
Why does that happen?
Yes, we can do better. Let’s start by not sounding like idiots.
The bottom line is that our society is actually pretty good at preventing the kinds of crime we want to prevent. Murders and other forms of physical violence have been reduced sharply in recent decades. In many ways, America is a far safer country than ever before in our history.
But women (and to some extent, children) haven’t seen the benefits of this golden age of safety. One in six American women will be the victim of rape or attempted rape in their lifetimes often assaulted by a family member or by someone they know. In many parts of our nation, women live in fear. And it’s not because they dress wrong or don’t know how to use their teeth or are feminists or get men too excited.
It’s because we have lax laws, and crummy law enforcement, and far too many institutions that don’t take the proper steps to insure women’s safety. And, sadly, it’s also because of the stupid $*#*# that men keep saying.
Tags: criminal justice, media, media ethics
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Ultimately, all these sexual assault cases are about entitlement. Sexual criminals think they are entitled to sex as an exchange for something (affection, gifts, dinner, etc). It doesn’t matter if they are prominent (like Cosby and Ghomeshi) or non-famous. It’s about people used to getting what they demand and not being told no.
And some of this crap would be astonishing in any other context. Imagine a neighbor broke into your home and beat you up and then having his buddies rationalize it, “Well you shouldn’t have provoked him by telling him to keep his dog on a leash. Oh and you should’ve locked your front door.”
I wonder if… as a male… the problem with confronting this… is it is so easy to say: “it’s them, not me.” Or a slight fear something you do, innocently, but lead to trouble.
But in reality we all need to start thinking about this.
Like this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A
I was kind of appalled to think that is life for a woman in NYC, and probably many other cities. and then I saw all the parodies….which seemed a little in bad taste.
But most of I don’t believe you should let anyone off the hook for this.. to say “I was making a joke” or it is a “political weapon” denies the underlining intent we continue to ignore
Also, remember that some women are as bad as men in making excuses for bad behavior. I know someone (with a long history of lacking self-control) who had a restraining order against him after threatening his girlfriend. His chief apologist wasn’t any male but his mother. “The girl brought it on herself,” she insisted. There wasn’t sexual assault involved (as far as I know) but it was still pretty serious.
First, one complaint. I am really tired of everything being called an epidemic.
As to sex, I never could figure out why anyone would want to have sex with anyone who wasn’t equally interested in having sex with them.
There should always be two sides in sex and most other interactions between humans. It’s all about wanting and wanting to be wanted. Take either out of the mix and you have a bad situation.
The use of booze, drugs and force to have sex with someone is proof positive the person using any of these methods has no confidence in their ability to be wanted for their own merits.
A woman, or for that matter even a man, should be able to walk naked down the streets late at night without any fear of being raped or assaulted in any other way. They might be arrested for indecent exposure – whatever that is – but that is a different matter.
Epidemic: synonyms: rife, rampant, widespread, wide-ranging, extensive, pervasive. One in six women will be assaulted in their lifetimes. In this case, I think the language works.
–Brian, NCPR
The CDC indicates a 50-60% decline in rape since 1993. While this is good 1 is too many.
Zeke –
Yes, there has been a marked decline in rape, though problems with reporting make these statistics somewhat suspect. But there is a huge difference between the improvements we’ve seen and “1 is too many.”
In the single year that the Bureau of Justice Statistics reported this decline (using statistics through 2010) roughly 270,000 American women experienced “completed, attempted, or threatened rape or sexual assault.”
That’s in a single year. So, at some point we might be at the “1 is too many” stage. Right now we’re still at the “quarter million a year is too many” stage.”
–Brian, NCPR
My point is we are improving and that we can not rest because of it.
Agreed.
Brian
Brian, I hear your frustration. It’s crazy how people believe that false accusations are common when the truth couldn’t be more at odds: real complaints are often mishandled and dismissed by those tasked with delivering justice. Women who come forward are shamed, humiliated and shunned (Steunbenville), discredited (Dominique Strauss-Kahn), and tagged as golddiggers (Crosby). Cops claim, with no evidence, that 30-50 percent of rape accusations are false*, and many cases of assault never get reported because of fear of reprisals.
Is it %#* men say, or is it a worn-out tale that we all tell ourselves, or is it fear of a changing world? In some ways the heightened attention to male-on-female violence is good, but does it move the needle?
*A look at what the police really think. Illuminating. http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/11/18/how_cops_respond_to_rape_a_new_study_of_officers_at_one_police_department.html
Brian (MOFYC), The anthropologist in me is not surprised at victim-blaming by other women, because we form our opinions inside our shared worldview. It’s no secret that our society a.) does not know how to deal with women’s sexuality, and b.) is invested in keeping traditional gender roles in place. These values are as invisible as the air that we breathe, but they are not foreordained.
It would appear alcohol is a contributing factor in over 50% of not only rapes but sexual assaults in general. Maybe the country should focus, with intensity, on alcohol thereby curing a number of social ills all at the same time.
Can someone point out this “Epidemic of sexual violence against women in America” in the US rape statistics?
http://atheism-analyzed.blogspot.com/2014/09/actual-us-rape-stats.html
Ben –
I’ll get to the details below, but let me start by saying that there are more than ten times as many rapes and sexual assaults in the US every year than there are murders. Ten times as many. And when women do get murdered, which happens about a thousand times a year? Nearly 40% of the time, it’s by a boyfriend or husband.
So to put the downward trend of sexual violence you report in context, consider this:
1. There has been a stark drop in the number of cases of sexual violence that get reported. In other words, law enforcement is not learning about roughly two thirds of these incidents. One of the most dangerous things that happen during an epidemic – and again I’m using that word figuratively is lack of case reporting and information.
2. According to the DOJ statistics, police only gathered actual evidence in 19% of cases where sexual violence was reported. (This is actually an improvement from much lower statistics.) In other words, when allegations of sexual violence do occur, it’s likely that police won’t gather enough information to make an informed decision about whether the case warrants an arrest.
3. In the last year of DOJ’s survey information (2010), women over the age of 12 “experienced 270,000 rape or sexual assault” incidents nationwide. That’s more than a quarter million alleged assaults in a single year. Roughly 19,000 of those rapes happen to women serving in the military. In other words, more women were raped in the military — a lot more — than all the murders in the entire US.
4. Then there’s this from the FBI’s homicide data (also from 2010): “Of the female murder victims for whom the relationships to their offenders were known, 37.5 percent were murdered by their husbands or boyfriends.”
So…is it good that statistics indicate a decline in sexual violence? Yes? Is it still an epidemic when more than a quarter million women experience sexual violence every year. I would say hell yes.
Here’s the link: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/fvsv9410pr.cfm
–Brian, NCPR
I think two causal factors are lack of respect and over-abundance of selfishness. The perpetrators, whether they be police who fail to gather evidence or the individual who assults another, demonstrate a lack respect for other people and fail or choose not to treat others in a manner they would treat “loved ones.”
Criminalizing the issue does little to reduce the crime when someone wants to act. What has to be instilled is proper behavior and opposition to negative talk whenever it takes place. The influence has to come from respected or at least tolerated contacts. Those implanted thoughts help to counter negative behavior and thought. TV and Movies don’t speak to people as much as they demonstrate. The contacts have to be open to speak out with positive remarks or words to curb attitudes. Of course the retort to such remarks is “shut up or mind your own business.” But this world is our business and we also have to pick up the pieces of those who hurt others. So we have less to pick up if we speak up.
When television commentary lacks respect for me and does not withhold crude language it demonstrates what I am talking about. It starts that far back in the chain, and further. Because at one time people would readily curb language in front of women but that is rare today. TV and similar media reflect and attempt to stimulate the public.
When there is no objection to negative behavior, it propagates. There is danger in objecting. Potential for attack, rejection, retribution.
Look back on what Jimmy Carter said about lusting with his eyes (I don’t remember it exactly) He didn’t physically commit adultery but he understood the event starts before the act.
Like breast cancer awareness, shining a spotlight on the issue is beneficial. The new revelations on Cosby are simply reinforcing what was known. He is not the issue but perhaps a poster child for it. (could make a great poster…) People point to his hypocrisy over scolding people for the very behavior he followed. Why discredit the message because the messenger was seriously flawed? The message came before he did. It is valid regardless of who says it as the remarks above show.
Wave the statistical flag but all most of us can do is object when we hear wrong talk and teach our children well. Puts a good spin on “man-up.”
Interesting.
The down votes
And the fact women have stayed clear of this discussion
Jeff, I don’t think you would propose “instilling proper behavior” as a method for change if the crime we were discussing was armed robbery. Sexual assault is a violent crime. Perpetrators should be prosecuted, and penalized if convicted. It may or may not change attitudes but it will make society safer.
Edward Low,
You don’t think this parody is funny? Still cracks me up. http://youtu.be/EC21NF5rbSk
I live in a town currently reeling from a horrendous sexual attack. (After a severe beating, the woman was raped and was then set on fire — all this as she walked through a neighborhood park after work.) The nearby university promptly scheduled a campus-wide meeting where officials explained what the woman did wrong and how other women can avoid a similar fate. Rule One: Never, ever, walk alone. Rule Two: Do not be on the streets after dark. Rule Three: Avoid parks. Mercy me. I’m thinking that many (most?) men have a difficult time even imagining life in such a world, much less talking sensibly about it.
Shovel- I was referring to instilling respect and diminishing selfishness. Robbery, vandalism, fraud, rape are taking something from other people not feely given. “Thou shalt not steal” is a very broad axiom. When the crime is committed the person overcame whatever reservations he may have had that held him back. The opposition to the harming of others needs to be an undercurrent more than it is.
Elaine’s comment points to how a person, to reduce the risk of exposure to violence must avoid certain activities that should not have to be avoided. What is society makes those activities a risk? Not carrying a gun? No, we have to speak out and not let things ride. Like the way the littlest things are getting reported in school. Some are ridiculous as far as the “punishment goes, but to bring the issue to light makes people think twice or more. Even in casual conversation around a beer the college guys or whoever need to cut off derogatory remarks toward others. I’m not off the hook either. Kind of like the teenage bull elephants with no senior bullto keep them under control. Some go rogue. The lot falls on all of us and as it is not all of use have good guidelines ourselves where to stop another person. We let it go. Peer pressure needs intelligent wise peers.
Wow! Based upon what Jeff says, “Because at one time people would readily curb language in front of women but that is rare today”, I/we must conclude that in Jeff’s opinion “women” are not people.
I have long been under the impression, based upon psychological articles I have read over the past 40-50 years, that the following has long been recognized in the psychiatric profession as an axiom upon which they have long agreed: “Rape is an act of violence – not sexual gratification. Men who rape or sexually assault do so to dominate, violate and control.” Additionally 90% of rape victims are raped by someone known to them.
Shovel — I am all about humor… and I hope we can laugh at most things….and that vid is funny, but really, the fact remains, would you want to be a woman walking through NYC
here is another video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jue_JlxnPGM
that I think contributes to it… Girl toys — Barbies (an image that is not realistic), boy toys — GI Joes.
I understand that quite often boys and girls gravitate to this… but watch the video and wonder, couldn’t dolls be a little realistic… if our whole society is objectifying women (and we do)… maybe we need re-think this.
Ken, I hope you will excuse me for not re-reading what I wrote 5 times. Yes, it should have said men rather than people. There was another typo where I added an extra e to us and changed the word. Sure the action of rape is violent but why the need to dominate, violate and control? I may not be to stop an event but perhaps something I say or do today will have an impact a long time from now. There are other elements than respect and selfishness that arise out of those issues. So many reasons to dominate, violate etc. There can be physiological issues (for the psychiatrist to deal with) but otherwise those reasons are not the root themselves. I am saying teach and display appropriate behavior. The roots of the violence etc. can make it hard to instill better behavior. Some of the lack of respect or selfishness stems from poor self-image and its causes are many.
We don’t learn most laws we abide by,by reading law books. We get a sense of how we are to behave from people around us. Bad surroundings don’t help.
Why wouldn’t we think that there are some women who would trump up sex charges against men?
Right now in the military, rape charges are coming in by the droves. Of course there is validity to these charges. But all of them? There is lifetime compensation for PTSD claimed as a result of these charges.
We can’t possibly ignore that there has got to be women out there who do cry rape when they have not been raped. And since the label “predator” is automatic, do women see all men as potential predators?
Is that what you guys want to be viewed as?
We live in a very open, sexually charged culture. Movies, television, internet – it’s everywhere and acceptable. Rape is not acceptable. But sexual desire is.
Everything I’ve understood about most men is that they are visually stimulated by women. I sometimes imagine that many men are in a continual state of being stimulated with the way women dress today (yes, I said it.) I’m a woman. I know what women do. Can she wear what she wants without fear of being raped? Certainly. But if women cared about men they would think about what they might be doing.
Is this an excuse for rape? Absolutely not. But how can we not talk about the elephant in the room?
Now enters self-control. Who knows why a guy can sit down and polish of a whole pizza and a dozen wings? Isn’t that gluttony? Are there consequences to over eating? Yes. And it’s a lack of self control.
How about the guy who can guzzle down 10 beers at a party? Are there consequences? Yes. And it’s a lack of self control.
Is sexual desire any different? It’s another appetite. And just like the over eater and the drinker, those things can get out of control. And there can be consequences with anything in our lives that we are not in control of. Men have to have self control when it comes to their sexual desire. And women need to help them by how they dress.
If the women don’t help them by being more considerate, it doesn’t mean they deserve rape.
But what about the guy who is aroused and thinks a gal wants to? I feel badly for guys because I know how women can be. So the lesson is that guys need to avoid situations like this at all costs because there are women who do cry rape.
I am deeply saddened by the alleged behavior of one of my childhood icons (e.g. Bill Cosby). If true, however, it must not be defended by the antiquated and unenlightened views expressed my male counterparts.
The so-called Sexual Revolution has done its part to confuse both men and women that we are all ready to screw (as opposed to “making love”) at the minute we feel the initial, and not necessarily mutual, physical attraction. Society tacitly declares that the man is the final decision maker about when and with whom as exemplified by college administrators and others who turn a blind eye rather than confront the issue. This more is exacerbated by the acceptance of immediate gratification in this society and the use of alcohol in most social situations.
Women have the right to dress in a manner that makes them attractive. This should not be read to mean that they want to have sexual congress at the drop of a hat.
Lastly, let’s remember that rape is a crime of violence, not passion. It is fueled by a warped ego, a lack of respect, and an inability to interact with the opposite sex on a mature, mutual level. Until we can climb out from under all of this, men keep your mouths shut and your genitals in your pants.
It seems like every time we talk about rape we talk about women: how THEY should act, were THEY drunk, did THEY encourage the guy, and so forth. But rape in general is committed by men, we should be talking about men and what is wrong with us, not about women, MEN are the problem. There is a group of men, a subculture (not all men certainly) who think its ok. Rape is violent act, its the reason that it has been used as a weapon in war, its the reason ISIS is using it now.
Look at the UVA situation. It’s pretty bad out there. It makes me as a father of a daughters not far from college very concerned about the issue and about college in general.
It will be interesting to see how universities and colleges respond. The knee jerk reaction and the one they are the most comfortable with is to handle rape internally. Even with the best intentions. Many now have staff dedicated to supporting women who are raped and helping them decide what to do. But frankly those staff work for the University. To me it HAS to be an external third party with no economic interests tied to the University. The problem of course is that this is a hard crime to prosecute and it is tough on the victim; look at the abuse we heap on victims. Look at Whoopi Goldburg essentially saying she was very suspect of these women, just out of the box saying she does not believe them. So you have powerful people, you have powerful institutions who are right now aligned against you as the victim. I think its the reason many women just say forget it I’m not going to say anything or report this.
Mervel, there have been stories in recent months, before the news of the latent revelation about Cosby, about several colleges programs on the topic of agreement by both parties before sex. Some set policies as well as revised police standards. The issue is percolating out there. I believe if people waited until they were married it would help a lot. But as in My Fair Lady, “they can have it all and not get hooked!?
To answer Kathy’s first question: Many people are incredulous that a woman would change such a thing. To Brian’s point to often it is among the first remarks men make. While true, it is likely rare and cause for listening first before speaking
I’m a man, I can change if I have to, I guess.
Mervel, the law defines different kinds of sexual assault and rape. In my mind, the violent rapist is a predator and it doesn’t matter how the woman is dressed. And if this situation with Cosby is true, howbeit not violent, he was a predator, too.
I am finding there is a culture of women who are increasingly suspicious of men to the point where men are avoiding women in the workplace at all costs for fear of accusations. This concerns me and it should concern men. The slightest hint of what a woman may deem as sexual misconduct is reported as harassment. Some women give off vibes the way they dress. A guy may misinterpret those vibes and get himself in trouble.
It’s a culture problem, really. What we allow into our lives affects us personally and as a society. Since society is not going to change, then yes, it is a huge man problem. Soon you won’t even talk to women because of fear of accusation.
I fear that this conversation has started to veer onto a well-worn but false trail. Violating sexual protocols — how women and men interact in the workplace, for example — does not inspire sober and emotionally healthy men to rape. Workplace harassment is an entirely different topic, one that certainly merits discussion; but it is not (thank God) a gateway to rape.
This course-correction from Dr. Nicholas Groth’s study, ‘Men Who Rape:’ “To begin with, one must understand that rape is not fundamentally a sexual act. It’s not about lusty men seeking sex. Rather, rape satisfies non-sexual needs related to anger and power. It is likely to have either a retaliatory motive (anger, especially against women) or a compensatory motive (an attempt to make up for emotional weakness).”
—And I’m so sad to report that the woman beaten, raped, and burned in our local park has died. She leaves four children, ages 6 to 14 years old. The alleged attacker has been arrested; he was a stranger to her but has a long history of violence against women.
I think when we say “predatory Rapist” we think oh some sort of guy we all know is “bad”.
But then we go over to UVA, we see eight college men, all of them students at a good school, no previous criminal back grounds, probably all nice guys who go home for thanksgiving and the family is all proud of them; gang rape a young women over and over for three hours at a frat party.
So where does that come from, what is in those guy’s heads that they see this as OK? Plus the numerous other members of the fraternity the knew about it and didn’t say anything.
There is a culture out there among some men, that rape is fine if she is drunk go for it. Really that is no different from what Cosby’s accusations are, get them stoned and rape them.
The only reason UVA is now taking any actions is due to the Rolling Stone article that is coming out about the incident. So once again the school’s internal mechanisms didn’t work, you needed an external third party. Look at those poor girls at Stuebenville Ohio that were continually harassed after talking about being raped by the football team. A good portion of the whole community turned against them, they had to move. So as a society I think we don’t want to punish rape nor do we want to take it that seriously. There has been incidents mirroring these in our own campus communities.
But I guess rape like child molestation is this dark secret that we have a conspiracy of silence about, where the victim ends up utterly alone. So you don’t accuse the star Hockey player of rape, rape is a felony, you go to prison, your whole life is changed, its not like getting busted for pot or even coke. So the serial rapists go on.
Its the same reason that Sandusky was left to go on and some Priests were left to simply go on.